Technical foul?

RefLarry · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 14, 2005, 08:36pm

During a time-out,A-1 stands on the outer circle of team B's huddle listening in on the conversation. When it is brought to the official's attention.A-1 is charged with a technical foul. Is the official correct?

hmm..I wonder how it was brought to the ref's attention? Ref must've been snoozing if he needed help seeing that.

ace · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 01:58am

Is B within the bench area that A is not allowed in during the timeout. Has the timeout expired?

Who brought it to the Referees attention... becuase if I was that referee I'd give him my shirt and my whistle, because I was obviously not doing my job of watching the bench.

walter · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 07:48am

I agree. It depends where the team A players are located as well as where B is located. If B is standing on the playing floor, in my opinion, there is nothing illegal about what he did even if team A is seated on their bench. That being said, if team B is still at their bench and team B sends a player over to A's bench area just to listen while the rest of team B remains, I'm obviously not going to allow that to happen. If team B breaks their huddle or sends their five players back onto the floor to resume play and one of their players goes over there but is still on the floor, I say that's legal. I can't find anything in the rules that says that B can't do that.

crazy voyager · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 09:24am

I agree, it's all in the intent. If a player on purpose is moving over to the bench area when the rest of the team is standing in a circle in their area, if he is trying to hear what the team is saying it should show on him. If the time out is over and the layers are returning I wouldn't call it though,if a player were trying to listen to the others TO talk I would T him.

And if somebody else poitned this out to me, I'd give the whistle to somebody in the audiance :P

ChuckElias · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 09:29am

Quote:

Originally posted by crazy voyager
I agree, it's all in the intent.

I disagree. I don't care about the intent, I care about the player's location. If A1 is standing in his bench area, then he's legal, even if that allows him to overhear Team B's huddle. It's like football huddles. The defense is allowed to be up to the line of scrimmage, I think. So they go right up to the line. If the offensive team is dumb enough to huddle close enough to the line so that they can be overheard, that's their problem.

If A1 is out of his bench area, then I'm shooing him back to his huddle. I don't think a T is warranted here.

Jurassic Referee · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 10:19am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
If A1 is out of his bench area, then I'm shooing him back to his huddle. I don't think a T is warranted here. [/B]

Seeing this is an IAABO test, Mr. IAABO interpreter......

1)What rule are you gonna use to shoo A1 back to his huddle?
2)What is the correct answer to the original IAABO test question? Is the official correct to give A1 a T? If so, what rule sez that it's OK to nail A1 with the T?

Rules citations for everything, please.

Inquiring minds need to know.

ChuckElias · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 10:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
what rule sez that it's OK to nail A1 with the T?

I don't think there is one. And that's why I'm shooing instead of T'ing.

I don't have the answer sheet yet.

RefLarry · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 10:50am

..this is question #69 from the IAABO Refresher Exam - 2005. I copied the question exactly as it is written so I have no further details.

Jurassic Referee · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 11:12am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
what rule sez that it's OK to nail A1 with the T?

I don't think there is one. And that's why I'm shooing instead of T'ing.

I don't have the answer sheet yet.

What do you need the answer sheet for? You got the rule books, don't you?

Well, lemme put you out of your misery then.....

- from POE #4 in the 2003/04 rulebook- "Secondly, teams shall remain in their bench area DURING 60 and 30-second timeouts".
- R5-12-5- "The 60-second time-out conference with teammembers shall be conducted within the confines of the bench area".
- R1-13-3- "The bench area shall be the area inside an imaginary rectangle formed by the boundaries of the sideline (including the bench), end line, an an imaginary line extended from the free-throw lane line nearest the bench area meeting an imaginary line extended from the coaching box line".
- R10-1-4- "A team shall not fail to occupy the team member's bench to which it is assigned."

Put 'em together and wadddaya got? Bippity boppity boo....

And I ain't even an IAABO member.....

Another great exam question....

ChuckElias · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 11:17am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
- from POE #4 in the 2003/04 rulebook- "Secondly, teams shall remain in their bench area DURING 60 and 30-second timeouts".
- R5-12-5- "The 60-second time-out conference with teammembers shall be conducted within the confines of the bench area".
- R1-13-3- "The bench area shall be the area inside an imaginary rectangle formed by the boundaries of the sideline (including the bench), end line, an an imaginary line extended from the free-throw lane line nearest the bench area meeting an imaginary line extended from the coaching box line".
- R10-1-4- "A team shall not fail to occupy the team member's bench to which it is assigned."

Put 'em together and wadddaya got? Bippity boppity boo....

So you're saying the answer is. . .?

BktBallRef · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 11:25am

Yes, the official is correct.

Jurassic Referee · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 11:52am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Yes, the official is correct.

Yes, BktBallRef is correct.

ChuckElias · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 02:35pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Yes, the official is correct.

Yes, BktBallRef is correct.

Because the eavesdropping is unsportsmanlike? Or because it's a T to be outside the bench area during a TO?

Jurassic Referee · #14 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 02:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Yes, the official is correct.

Yes, BktBallRef is correct.

Because the eavesdropping is unsportsmanlike? Or because it's a T to be outside the bench area during a TO?

Well, the language I cited seems to support a T for being outa the bench area during a TO.

But......maybe you can also take your choice.

Being outside the bench area is a team T under R10-1-4(the language is close enough, methinks).

Or.....you can call it a player T under the generality of R10-3-7--"commit an unsporting foul".

Personally, I like the option that also gives the coach the indirect T and the seatbelt. It's fun putting that sad look on your face and saying "Gee, I'm really, really sorry, coach, but you're gonna haveta keep your a$$ on the bench for the rest of the game".

JRutledge · #15 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 03:02pm

What are you guys going to do if the coach is breaks their team conference before the timeout is over? Are you going to T up every kid that is not in the bench area at this time? What if the kid is not even close to the other team's huddle and opposite the table? Are we just giving a T because the player is not in the bench area or are we giving a T because he is not in his bench area and overhearing the opponent's conversation?

Peace