Help me understand. . . .

[ChuckElias]

I'm bumping this from a few weeks ago b/c I have to teach lag time this week. So I'm still looking for a "bottom line" way to teach it.

Can we always put back exactly what we saw b/c of having definite knowledge? If not, how do we differentiate?

I hate the difference between seeing the clock as the whistle blows vs looking up after blowing the whistle. If I blow first and then look right away, do I have to assume that a second has already run off?

I would just like a simple answer to give to the new applicants.

[David B]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I'm bumping this from a few weeks ago b/c I have to teach lag time this week. So I'm still looking for a "bottom line" way to teach it.

Can we always put back exactly what we saw b/c of having definite knowledge? If not, how do we differentiate?

I hate the difference between seeing the clock as the whistle blows vs looking up after blowing the whistle. If I blow first and then look right away, do I have to assume that a second has already run off?

I would just like a simple answer to give to the new applicants.

Maybe its just my reading, but the FED interpretations seems pretty clear to me:

COMMENT: By interpretation, “lag or reaction” time is limited to one second when the official’s signal is heard and/or seen clearly. The rules do not permit the referee to correct situations resulting in normal reaction time of the timer which results in a “lag” in stopping the clock. Additional time which may subsequently run off the clock (after the one second lag time) is considered a timing mistake and may be corrected. (5-10-1)

When the official sees the time immediately, the scorer is still allowed a second (in the example he saw 55 but 54 was okay)

When the official sees the time and "more than one second is run off the clock" then its considered a mistake and he should correct it back to what he saw (in the example 55)

Seems kind of strange, but I guess the timer gets the benefit of the doubt while the official must go with what he sees.

But that also seems pretty clear to me.

Good luck explaining...

Thanks
David

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I'm bumping this from a few weeks ago b/c I have to teach lag time this week. So I'm still looking for a "bottom line" way to teach it.

Can we always put back exactly what we saw b/c of having definite knowledge? If not, how do we differentiate?

I hate the difference between seeing the clock as the whistle blows vs looking up after blowing the whistle. If I blow first and then look right away, do I have to assume that a second has already run off?

I would just like a simple answer to give to the new applicants.

That is how I read it Chuck.

Whistle then look equals "interpreted" lag time, i.e. the time it took you to look was the 1 second of lag time, so fix it to what you saw on the clock.

If you happen to see the clock as the whistle blows you have to allow the lag time unless it is over one second.

I'd tell them if you know for sure more than 1 second ran off, fix it to the time you saw.

If you don't know for sure how much time ran off, fix it to the time you saw.

[ronny mulkey]

Agree with Blind Zebra for rules discussions boards. For teaching purposes, i agree with your buddy. If we can't expect clock operators to be "instantaneous" then I don't think we can expect our officials to react that quickly either. Bottom line - blow your wistle, look at the clock and if it continues to run, set it back to the time that you saw when you first glanced at it. Lag time is interpreted to be that period of time that it took for you to react and look at the clock....

I think that it takes a very good official to get to this point. The explanation to the coach becomes very important - "Coach, we are resetting the clock because we had definite knowledge of the time remaining at the time of the infraction". We have had guys that knew a timing error occurred and their explanations got all over the place.

Our State put together a training tape for this season of plays/mistakes and one of their emphatic statements was that if you have a foul at the end of a period followed by the horn then you should put time back on the clock. That statement is not allowing for lag time, glancing at the clock, definite knowledge of time remaining, determining clock operator error, etc. I guess they are expecting instantaneous reaction by the clock operator. Again, we have a very Women's College orientation down here.

Mulk

[walter]

Two years ago in a college game, the referee (D1 offical) had this in his pre-game and I've included in mine ever since. When there is a whistle, the non-blowing official(s) are to make sure they immediately get a quick look at the clock to make sure it stops and then, subsequently, the non-administering official(s) on a throw-in or missed free throw make sure the clock properly starts. If there is a problem, we go with what was on the clock when first observed because that is definite knowledge. I askd him, if we see a second or more click off, how do you want it handled? His response was if a second or less clicks off between the time you look up and the clock stopping, we do nothing. If more than a second clicks off, we are going to have a correction back to the time that was first observed. In the case of the clock not starting, the official's count is definite knowledge of time elapsed. In all cases, the calling or administering official should also observe the clock but in case of dispute, the partner's judgment is controlling. This has served me well over the last two years and I will continue to use it in my games.

[Grail]

The way I understand it:

If 1 second or less elapses from the time of the whistle, leave it alone.

If more than 1 second elapses, set it back to the time you saw.

Example: 3.2 on the clock when the whistle blows. Clock operator stops clock at 2.3. Leave it alone. Clock stops at 2.1, put it back to 3.2.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by blindzebra
Whistle then look equals "interpreted" lag time, i.e. the time it took you to look was the 1 second of lag time, so fix it to what you saw on the clock.

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
Bottom line - blow your wistle, look at the clock and if it continues to run, set it back to the time that you saw when you first glanced at it.

Bob, do you agree with this? You seemed to take issue with it on the previous page.

If this is the case, then from now on, I'm always going to say that I wasn't looking when the whistle blew and resetting to whatever I see.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Bob, do you agree with this? You seemed to take issue with it on the previous page.

If this is the case, then from now on, I'm always going to say that I wasn't looking when the whistle blew and resetting to whatever I see.

I'm not sure I get this comment.

What else would you set it to? What you DIDN'T see??

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
What else would you set it to? What you DIDN'T see??

You might not reset it at all. You might see it moving but not fix it. I'll just assume that I wasn't looking exactly when the whistle blew -- which means that a second has already ticked off -- and put back whatever time I first saw on the clock.