Clearly if B1 had not fallen over backwards, this would have been a foul on A1. The question is whether B1 loses LGP by falling over backwards. Some in this thread have argued that A.R. 23 after 4-33.4a says that any time a player is on the floor, he/she is in an illegal defensive position. <font color = red>However, looking at 4-33.6, one could argue that B1 has met the requirements to maintain LGP.</font>

[/B][/QUOTE]That's basically what I've been trying to say. The purpose and intent of "guarding" principles and the principle of every player also being able to legally have a position on the court isn't always met by AR23.

Again, if the defender's on the floor what does the dribbler gain by tripping over him? [/B][/QUOTE]The dribbler gains an automatic blocking foul on the defender, according to a strict application of AR23, no?

The dribbler gains an automatic blocking foul on the defender, according to a strict application of AR23, no? [/B][/QUOTE]

Could be, I'll keep that in mind for when I see a dribbler purposefuly run over a defender laying on the floor.

Could be, I'll keep that in mind for when I see a dribbler purposefuly run over a defender laying on the floor. [/B][/QUOTE]Aw, c'mon........

I'm just trying to (seriously) find out how far you take AR23. Time/distance <b>never</b> applies?

I can see that AR applying to a post player turning, and then starting their move unaware that a defender's down there and not really having a chance to stop or change direction before falling over the defender. But.....is there no limit though in NCAA?

Aw, c'mon........

I'm just trying to (seriously) find out how far you take AR23. Time/distance <b>never</b> applies?

I can see that AR applying to a post player turning, and then starting their move unaware that a defender's down there and not really having a chance to stop or change direction before falling over the defender. But.....is there no limit though in NCAA? [/B][/QUOTE]

I already gave you my answer. Virtually every time a dribbler sees a player, any player, on the floor he moves to avoid him. As a practical matter if the dribbler trips over a player on the floor I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt virtually every time. As a rules matter, the AR says B1 "has taken an illegal defensive position". To me, taking an illegal defensive position means he can neither establish LGP nor maintain LGP. If B1 has taken an illegal defensive position then he is solely responsible for any subsequent contact.

In virtually every case.

ahh
 

i see the dead horse requires a further beatdown.

Re: ahh
 

No it doesn't. Not at all. No further beatdown. Not for this dead horse. No beatdown at all. No way. No sirree.