Anyone?

I hated the fact that when I was in high school, the refs wouldn't let us dunk and now that I officiate, I have to constantly remind players not to do so. So what's the logic behind not dunking?

I always assumed it was to prevent the players from screwing up the rims/backboards before the game even started. You can't exactly get "hurt" dunking in pre-game. Well, some people can...

Yup.

I honestly can't believe the question was even asked. How much actual warmup would a bunch of high school boys get if they were allowed an alley-oop dunk fest to show off for the crowd before the game? And yes, there would be injuries, damages, showboating, and ill-feelings before the game even started.

I remember when sometimes we would get about 5 minutes before the refs came out. We like ta tore those goals out of the ceiling. It's amazing how much higher you can jump with a pep-band, cheerleaders and a packed gym. Seems like it took the rest of the warmups and a couple of minutes of the game to settle down after that. Until we settled dowm it was almost useless to shoot. As a player, we loved to get in the dinks, but I can see where a coach wouldn't like it and if a goal did bust, now the game is either going to have to play on another night or it will be really delayed.

You would have kids trying to dunk who can't dunk. Those kids would be the ones who would injure themselves or damage equipment.

Further, how would you like to cancel a game because the rim or backboard was damaged during warm-ups? Schools don't have enough money to buy books or pay teachers. They certainly don't have extra money lying around to pay for broken backboards and bent rims.

It short, no good whatsoever would come from allowing kids to dunk during warm-ups.

except
 

actual fun for the kids involved -- but that concept died out a long time ago

Re: except
 

How much fun is it for the kid that gets injured?

How much fun is it to cancel the game because someone broke the backboard?

Unfortunately kids don't always know what's best for them. That's why we have rules, in basketball and in life.

the chance of a kid getting hurt dunking
 

is the same as him during layup drills -- now a game being delayed because of a broken backboard sucks more for who the kids or for us (after all we arent paid by the hour) -- and when was the last time you say a backboard break in basketball -- what are the chances.

The only problem I have with pregame dunks is when said team is using it as intimidation and just acting like idiots -- but the spirit of basketball and all sports are to have fun -- theres a lot of stuff that would suck if someone got hurt but thats sport...you get hurt

The former interpreter on my board used to tell this story. Big Time D1 School A had to travel for a rivalry game against Big Time D1 School B. Unfortunately, the flu was tearing through School A; classes were empty, students and teachers were sick, the basketball team was decimated. Team A's AD calls Team B and explains the situation. He asks to reschedule the game. Team B's AD realizes this will be an easy win and refuses to reschedule. So Team A saddles up and heads to School B. They come out for warm-ups and the first kid in the lay-up line dunks the ball and then pulls the rim off the backboard. Team A got their postponement. But the next year, dunking in warm-ups was outlawed.

I have no idea if that story is even close to true, but it sounds so good, that I like to re-tell it. :)

Didn't some kid in Canada die after attempting a dunk in warm-ups just last year?

Re: the chance of a kid getting hurt dunking
 

Kids don't hit their hands on the rim or get them in the net when they're doing layup drills.

Kids don't grab or hang on the rim when they're doing layups.

Kids aren't trying to jump as high as they possibly can when they're doing layup drills.

When was the last time a backboard was broken in my area? Two years ago. In a regular season game, a local kid dunked and shattered the backboard. He was cut on the legs by glass and missed the next two games. Two opponents also received head lacerations. The game was held at Hoke County High School in Raeford NC and could not be finished. I had the next game, three nights later. The replacement backboard arrived and was installed the day of my game. So don't give me the "waht are the chances" bull$hit.

Now suddenly, we allow all varsity and JV players to TRY to dunk in warmups and you're so naive that you think there won't be damaged equipment and injured players. Perhaps you didn't hear about the kid from Illnois who came to camp a feww weeks ago in Asheville NC. He tried to dunk and fell on his head. He died.

Nah, you're absolutely right. There's no reason whatsoever to have this rule.

Give me a freakin' break.

Re: the chance of a kid getting hurt dunking
 

I'm assuming you are an out of work actuary? Since you are stating that you can assess the chances of two events happening and you apparently are sitting on your own head...

Hmm, I don't know why you gave such a harsh, attitude laced response. But okay.

Hey, go easy on the poor guy. It may be that he does mostly girls, and doesn't realize the dangers of dunking. Even at the varsity level, it's not much of a discussion on the girls' side of the gym.

Re: Re: the chance of a kid getting hurt dunking
 

You forgot the "he's 6 inches too short/underside of the rim" jam, with back breaking fall to the floor, dunk.:D

Re: the chance of a kid getting hurt dunking
 

This sounds alot like the crap you hear from coaches and fans when enforcing the rules.

"Awe, come on ref, let the kids play, your not the show!"

I had a coach get angry with me because we had a T on a kid for dunking in pre-game warmups. He was actually angry with me because his kid was a dumb a**. Normally I try to miss it because it happens so rarely, but I was looking right at the warm-up and the opposing coach looked right at me like with the expression of, aren't you going to take care of that. I had no choice that time.

I hate to see that as well, it discourages legitimate questions. Not everyone here is a veteran of 20 years.

Anyway, I wonder how some define a "dunk". I have yet to officiate a real game yet so I haven't been in the position to call technicals for such actions. However, I've observed plenty of varsity warm-ups and seems to me there are some players coming awfully close. They "throw it down" from above the rim without contacting the rim...it's very close to the line in my opinion.

Where do some of you draw the line? Hand/ball above the cylinder? Contact with the rim? Just curious.

I know that alot of us guys in this fourm have alot of experience. But there are some guys who are just beginning there journey down this road.

And when they ask a question they are not asking a question just to ask it, they are asking a question because they just dont know.

We do not want to discourage the new official from asking questions because then they will get discouraged and never ask a question. And then where will that get us in this profession.

Just think abt how you would want your questions answered. Lets not give smart answers.

Rizzo

this is how i determine, act like you were watching a real game. When a person dunks the rim shakes and is pulled down.

if they jump up over the rim and just put it in, that is just a layup.

when there is contact on that rim like an actual dunk. you need to call that T

[Edited by Love this Game on Aug 5th, 2005 at 12:14 PM]

That's a dunk. It's not necessary that they touch the rim.

Strictly by definition, it probably is a dunk. But I would never call a technical for that -- unless I were specifically told by my assignor to do so. As always, JMO.

That's the walk over to the lay up line and tell them, "Knock that off, don't make me decide if it's a dunk," dunk.:D

[Edited by blindzebra on Aug 6th, 2005 at 01:46 AM]

Relax folks. Deecee is a youngster who is clearly expressing the views of a teenager.

Not only is it improper in NFHS but NCAA and NBA games.

I agree the rationale prevents ill-feelings, showboating, etc. The purpose is to warm-up. Tell the teams to warm-up

But remember that NCAAW are NOT penalized for pregame dunking!

Re: Re: Re: the chance of a kid getting hurt dunking
 

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef Kids don't hit their hands on the rim or get them in the net when they're doing layup drills. Kids don't grab or hang on the rim when they're doing layups. Kids aren't trying to jump as high as they possibly can when they're doing layup drills.

We're worried about kids hitting their hands on the rim? Wow!!!

Quote:

When was the last time a backboard was broken in my area? Two years ago. In a regular season game, a local kid dunked and shattered the backboard. He was cut on the legs by glass and missed the next two games. Two opponents also received head lacerations. The game was held at Hoke County High School in Raeford NC and could not be finished. I had the next game, three nights later. The replacement backboard arrived and was installed the day of my game. So don't give me the "waht are the chances" bull$hit.

This is legit. We're worried about the equipment and dunks seriously shorten the lifetime of rims and backboards.

Quote:

Now suddenly, we allow all varsity and JV players to TRY to dunk in warmups and you're so naive that you think there won't be damaged equipment and injured players. Perhaps you didn't hear about the kid from Illnois who came to camp a feww weeks ago in Asheville NC. He tried to dunk and fell on his head. He died.

Then why hasn't the NFHS outlawed dunking in games too? Heck, my cousin got hurt jumping once. Maybe the NFHS should outlaw jumping during warm-ups.

Plain and simple, we're worried about the equipment and not the EXTREMELY minor risk to players.

plamer, be as sarcastic as you like, I couldn't care less. There isn't one signle concern, there are several and they're all legit. Please give me a single example where equipment would be damaged but you can guarantee that a kid won't be injured. The fact is that you would have almost every kid on a team attempting to dunk during warmups. Kids who are trying to dunk are going to be grabbing the rim. You obviously aren't going to have any of this in the game.

Plain and simple, there's absolutely, positively no need to allow players to dunk during warmup[s. For those who don't like it, get over it, 'cause it ain't gonna change.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Aug 7th, 2005 at 11:59 AM]

Yeah, I'm being sarcastic. I just don't believe that the rule is there to prevent kids from "jumping as high as they can" during warm-up. Hanging on the rim is different than dunking, why bring that up?

It's all about the equipment. Dunking wears the rim down, and you'd hate for it to fail 10 minutes before game time.

I've seen broken fingers, cut fingers, sprained backs, twisted ankles and knees, a broken wrist,a broken leg, and a player knocked unconscious all because of attempted dunks.

I'm sure it's all about the equipment.:rolleyes:

A kid from school a school in the area died while hanging on the rim in North Carolina. I think I posted a link about this awhile back.

Peace

Grabbing the rim, hanging on the rim, slapping the backboard and showing off while trying to dunk is what it's all about for a lot of these kids who attempt it during the game. Any intelligent person should be able to see that if it was allowed during warm-ups, it would only be worse.

Very true and they usually refer this to show boating and taunting the opponent.

If dunking is so dangerous, why is it allowed during games? And I've seen all these injuries (and more) which were not the result of attempted dunks. Dunking is a part of the game, and players should be allowed to practice that part of the game during warm-ups. That said, I understand that dunking wears the rim down and you don't want your rim failing 2 minutes before game time.

College players, who don't get hurt trying to dunk, aren't allowed to dunk during pregame to protect the rims.

One more bit of sarcasm: I love this chat board.

The 5' 8" kid that needs a running five step start to get near the rim ain't trying to dunk during a game, but he'll try it in warm ups.

The kids that can dunk easily will start a little slam dunk contest, they aren't throwing down a normal routine dunk, they are trying windmill reverse dunks.

The kids that wouldn't try to dunk in a game, because the coach will likely bench them for blowing an easy two points, will attempt it in warmups.

The vast majority of kids I've warned or T'd are kids that will never dunk in a game.

With all due respect, you need to practice a dunk?



[Edited by BLydic on Aug 9th, 2005 at 04:53 PM]

Bottom line, Luther- it doesn't matter what you think. It's against the rules and that's not going to change. :)

Where to draw the line?
 

What I do is:

1) a simple lay in gone wrong - the guy grazes the rim, for example - gets an "Are you completely out of your mind?" warning.

2) Unless it has any power to it. Then it's a T right off.

Children will be dunkin'
 

I can remember one 15 year old child, who went on to be captain of a Big Ten team, who perhaps had never quite gotten it down yet - at a team practice, with his Dad there - he went up and landed flat on his back. There were a bunch of future high level players there, but he was the highest. The gym turned stone quite. He didn't move for 2 seconds, then got up with a big, adolescent smile . . .

Dunking, yuh gotta love it . . .

I agree with BsktBallRef
 

but, I gotta admit, the wear and tear on the rim thing had a lot more sway when there were single fized rims - that's what got damaged, the rims got bent.