Coach delays after time out

[lukealex]

What is the proper procedure for dealing with a coach or team that delays after the second horn following a TO?

First horn - TO almost over
Second horn - TO over
Third horn - Delay warning? How long do you usually wait until giving a tech?

[tjones1]

I'm using resumption of play procedure.

Edit: Door bell was ringing... hit enter way before I was done.

Anyways, I usually pre-game it and tell the coaches we're playing on the second horn. Haven't had any problems...knock on wood.

[Edited by tjones1 on Aug 10th, 2005 at 06:18 PM]

[lukealex]

Ok but how long will you wait until taking action with a coach that delays?

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by lukealex
What is the proper procedure for dealing with a coach or team that delays after the second horn following a TO?

First horn - TO almost over
Second horn - TO over
Third horn - Delay warning? How long do you usually wait until giving a tech?

I was willing to let the first two lines slide, but your third one got to me.

First horn: at 15 sec. on a 30-sec. TO
Second horn: at 45 sec. on a 60-sec. TO
There is no 3rd horn, and there are a lot of things that happen before a tech. First, I would give that team every opportunity to get out of the huddle. At the 1st horn, you and your partner should be walkin towards the huddle letting them know. At the 2nd horn, I might be sticking my ugly mug right in the middle of the huddle to remind them to get moving. Then, if they break the huddle and start moving towards getting into position to play, no problem. But, if after you have reminded them it's time to play, and you and your partner(s) get to your positions, and the other team is out of their huddle and ready to go, and they are still not breaking the huddle, then make eye contact with your partners, blow the whistle (even a little louder and longer than normal when resuming play normally), and go to the resuming play procedure. There's a whole section in the book about that. If it's team A's ball, and team B is one still in the huddle, give it to A and away you go. They'll get out quick enough. If it's A's ball, and they're still in the huddle, set the ball down and start your 5 sec. throw-in count (assuming, of course, it's just a standard throw-in). The T wouldn't come into play until after both teams have not broken the huddle after the second 5-sec. count after the warning for delay. If that happens, I'd love to see the tape of that game.

Remember, be slow and deliberate before getting to the point where you blow the whistle and set the ball down, or give it to the other team. Use every opportunity to clap your hands, say, "First horn!", or "Second horn!", whatever's necessary to make sure you're getting everyone's attention. And, once they start to break the huddle, that's enough for me. I have seen some guys go as far as to set the ball down just because the players are walking slow to the throw-in spot. Don't do that. Give the team every opportunity to break the huddle, and if you do need to get play moving without them, everyone in the gym should be well aware of what's happening.

[Mregor]

There is no 3rd horn. By rule, 1st horn is a warning horn, 2nd horn means the time out or intermission has expired. How you handle it is one of the game management decision your crew makes and depends on the specific situation to put the ball back in play.

Resuming play with a throw in. By rule, if it is a delay by the team entitled to the throw in, you put some air in your whistle, place the ball on the floor, and begin your five second count. If they don't get it in before the 5 seconds, it is a throw in violation and you give Team B the next throw in. If team B is delaying, you give the ball to Team A and proceed (most likely with an uncontested layup). If either team continues to delay, it is a technical foul.

If play is resumed by a FT, if the thrower is the one delaying, you place the ball on the line and begin the count. If the defense is the one delaying, you get the ball to the thrower and they attempt their throw. You now have a delayed violation for the defense not occupying the bottom 2 spaces and you have a substitute throw. If they continue to delay, it is a technical foul.

In practice, you don't let them delay. During regular season, we break up the huddle rather than just giving the "1st horn" warning. By break-up, I mean we go to their huddle and stay there until they break. If they delay, we get a coach's attention and make them break. If you need to do it, be sure the crew is consistant and it's better if it is early in the game rather than the last posession.

Mregor

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by M&M Guy
First horn: at 15 sec. on a 30-sec. TO
Second horn: at 45 sec. on a 60-sec. TO
There is no 3rd horn,

Haven't you ever worked with a horny table crew?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by lukealex
What is the proper procedure for dealing with a coach or team that delays after the second horn following a TO?

First horn - TO almost over
Second horn - TO over
Third horn - Delay warning? How long do you usually wait until giving a tech?

Delay warning?

Nah...

At the second horn briskly walk to the sideline, go into the huddle and ask the coach if he wants another timeout. That will get his attention. When he says no tell him he needs to end the huddle now.

Always works.

[lukealex]

Originally posted by M&M Guy


I was willing to let the first two lines slide, but your third one got to me.

Ever think that a table doesn't know there are only supposed to be two horns? I'm looking for input on how to handle a situation, not someone to come and critique how I presented it. You could have simply said I was wrong and corrected me, which I would have appreciated.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

At the second horn briskly walk to the sideline, go into the huddle and ask the coach if he wants another timeout. That will get his attention. When he says no tell him he needs to end the huddle now.

Always works.

That's good stuff Dan. I'll be using that one next season. Thanks!

Z

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by lukealex

Ever think that a table doesn't know there are only supposed to be two horns? I'm looking for input on how to handle a situation, not someone to come and critique how I presented it. You could have simply said I was wrong and corrected me, which I would have appreciated.

Luke, I think he was just being coy, not disrespectful. But if he was being snotty, I'll get him here for you.

MM, I was willing to let the first line slide, but the second one got to me! You said:

"First horn: at 15 sec. on a 30-sec. TO
Second horn: at 45 sec. on a 60-sec. TO

Why is the second horn at 45 on a 60 sec TO? What the heck is that all about?!

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Why is the second horn at 45 on a 60 sec TO? What the heck is that all about?!

The 5 extra seconds is to account for how long it takes to get up off the bench.

[BLydic]

Originally posted by Mregor
Resuming play with a throw in. By rule, if it is a delay by the team entitled to the throw in, you put some air in your whistle, place the ball on the floor, and begin your five second count. If they don't get it in before the 5 seconds, it is a throw in violation and you give Team B the next throw in. If team B is delaying, you give the ball to Team A and proceed (most likely with an uncontested layup).

I know this is the way it reads in the book, but is it really the right thing to do? I have no problem putting the ball down if the throw-in team is delaying, that always seems to work just fine. But I have a hard time with giving a team an uncontested 2 points.

I like Dan's alternative of asking a delaying teams coach if he/she needs another timeout. Are there any other alternatives that work in this situation?


[Edited by BLydic on Aug 11th, 2005 at 08:40 AM]

[Ref in PA]

I have not ever had a real problem with this, probably because most of the refs in our chapter does it the same, so there is consistancy from game to game.

At the first horn, both benches are warned and then the refs go to their positions. After the second horn and partner refs are in position, the administering ref counts silently to 5 and sounds his whistle long and loud is one or both of the teams has not broken huddle. If one or both teams still has not broken huddle, the five second throw-in count begins.

This is the procedure we follow as a chapter, and I have never had a problem breaking huddle.

[tjones1]

I know most of us has a 20 second (if that) pre-game with the coaches and players. However, an extra sentence of letting them know (or reminding them) that we are playing on the second horn should take care of it.

[brandan89]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Haven't you ever worked with a horny table crew?

Leave it to Mark.