Did he kick the defender? Yeah, i guess so, his foot made contact and slightly displaced defender, sounds like a kick

Is kicking another player a flagrant foul by rule? Yes, it is.

So, if you had it to do over again you would call a flagrant foul? No, I would not. It did not fit this game and situation. I judged and would again it to be similar to extending a forearm to create space and not an act that should be judged as flagrant. [/B][/QUOTE]Dev, that's certainly good enough for me. I was just pointing out that, by rule, a kick is a flagrant act. In real life, the official on the firing line has to make the exact same decisions that you made above: was this particular act really a flagrant act? Did the game situation really warrant that extreme action should be taken in this particular case? As you said, does the call fit <b>this</b> particular game and <b>this</b> particular situation?

I wasn't there and I didn't see the call. That means that I really don't have any grounds that will allow me to second-guess your judgement on your call. Which means I ain't gonna even think of second-guessing you. You were there. If you thought it was the right call for that situation, then it was the right call.

Dev, that's certainly good enough for me. I was just pointing out that, by rule, a kick is a flagrant act. In real life, the official on the firing line has to make the exact same decisions that you made above: was this particular act really a flagrant act? Did the game situation really warrant that extreme action should be taken in this particular case? As you said, does the call fit <b>this</b> particular game and <b>this</b> particular situation?

I wasn't there and I didn't see the call. That means that I really don't have any grounds that will allow me to second-guess your judgement on your call. Which means I ain't gonna even think of second-guessing you. You were there. If you thought it was the right call for that situation, then it was the right call.



[/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks, partner. ;)

Dev, my guess is that the play as you saw it, and the play as we're seeing it in our imaginations are two different things. It sounded as though he tried to high kick the defender, and maybe caught a piece of the defender's shirt. But perhaps that's not what really happened. Perhaps you could be a little more specific about the details of where the foot went in relation to the defenders' geography?

Edited to add:

Okay, I went back to the original post, and it does say that the shooter kicked the defender in the chest. It also uses the word "karate" which implies a sort of deliberate, planned and forceful action. Still, I'm thinking that if you didn't think it was even intentional, then perhaps the words you used don't mean the same things as what I'm hearing. I think you should try again with a different vocabulary. I would think any karate kick aimed at another player would be flagrant.

[Edited by rainmaker on Jul 17th, 2005 at 07:02 PM]

Absolutely correct, Julie. I think in my attempt at humor, I definitely gave a somewhat glorified twist on what actually happened. The player definitely put his body in a position to contact the defender and clear space. I believe the foot made contact with the defender in his lower left chest area, near the bottom of the rib cage. It was enough that he was bumped backwards only slightly. I don't know how else to downplay it, there's only so much I can say, because he definitely made foot to body contact. I just felt then and still do that it was no different than a forearm or shoulder clear out.

glad it wasn't as violent as we thought, but....
 

The play as you described it, along with the title of the thread you started, does not reflect what happened.

You can't blame other people for shouting "flagrant" - in the future, perhaps use a little more discretion and be a little more precise with your information.

I guess I don't get it. If a deliberate kick in the chest isn't a flagrant foul, I don't know what is.

Oh yeah.....and read my tag line.

I don't know either...This isn't soccer, you don't kick another player to create space.

I thing the point is, it wasn't a deliberate kick to the chest. It was an attempt to clear out the defender, and it was a good solid foul, but Devin overstated the situation for dramatic effect. He's learned his lesson. Next time, he'll use more smilies and describe things a little more precisely.

Thank you Julie.. It's Devon, btw...I appreciate the support. Not that I'm afraid to battle with Padgett, he doesn't scare me, lol, not as long as he's in WA anyway.

Good that you pointed that out, because Juulie is a real stickler for spelling and grammar :D

And Padgett's harmless - as long as GWB doesn't appoint him as U.S. ambassador in France. :p

Got it -- Devon, on, on. And since we're picking at nits, Padgett doesn't actually live in Washington, although he does live in Washington County, Oregon. I don't know if he's less scary in Washington. I've never worked with him there.

Dare to dream!

I'd straighten out those cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

BTW - I just accepted the post of US ambassador to Antartica. I think it's mostly because I speak fluent Penguin.

Dare to dream!

I'd straighten out those cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

BTW - I just accepted the post of US ambassador to Antartica. I think it's mostly because I speak fluent Penguin. [/B][/QUOTE]

Just be careful to keep a weather eye out for those pesky leapord seals!

After reading half the responses to this thread, my comment was going to be... "Dev, I understand what you're saying but some of these people never will." Well, they proved me wrong. I'm proud of this group. Sniffle sniffle.

Someone's tag line used to read, "I used to have a sense of humor, then I became a referee."