OK, I told myself I was going to look this up before posting but for some reason I cannot find my books so here it is:

A1 has a breakaway layup but B1 is closing fast, I've got a great look as A1 shoots and B1 fouls. I hit the whistle and follow the players to the floor. They separate so I look up to see if the shot falls as A2 (for not apparent reason) jumps up and grabs the rim as the ball is clearly inside the cylinder. Waiting, waiting and no whistle from partner so I hit it again and call a conference to discuss. We both agreed that ball was in cylinder and it was A2 grabbing the rim so I wiped the basket.

Since A1 got fouled, I put him at the line with 2 throws. Is that right since it was his teammate that caused the layup to be erased?

Yes, you gave him his two shots for his foul, and took away the other point from the basket interference.

You don't ignore the foul just because the teammate committed BI.

2 FTs.

You shoulda looked it up. :D

It's not BI. To have BI, you have to grasp the ring while the ball is <b>on</b> the ring or within the basket. Above the ring in the cyliner don't count.

The only call you could possibly have on A2 in this sitch is a "T" for grasping the ring under R10-3-4, if he wasn't doing it to prevent an injury.

The foul on B1 is still penalized accordingly.

I've been a little slow to respond a few times this week, as JR beat me to this one. (Actually, "a little slow" is a huge understatement when one is slower than JR and Dan :p )

Anyway, JR nailed it. If the ball was already in the basket, then it's BI to touch the rim. Otherwise, touching the rim is nothing. In order to be BI, you have to touch the ball while it's in the cylinder.

The reason I remember that so well is that I missed it on my IAABO test when I first became a ref. For some reason, it's stuck with me. And by the way, that same question continues to come up about every other year on the test, it seems.

When I'm saying it's in the cylinder, what I mean is that it's inside the ring. In fact, his grabbing and snapping the rim caused the ball to then pop out. Thanks for the responses.

Inside the cylinder and inside the ring are two completely different situations, and are handled as such, according to the rules.

Be that as it may.....

Correct call now is:
- foul by B1 on A1, who was shooting.
- BI <b>and</b> a "T" on A2. Rule 4-6-4 and rule 10-3-4/CB 10.3.4SitB.
- wipe the basket by A1.
- charge B1 with a personal foul and A2 with a technical foul
- false double foul - handle in the order they occured.
- A1 shoots 2 FT's with the lanes empty.
- Any B player(s) shoot 2 FT at t'other end with the lanes empty.
- Team B gets a throw-in at center opposite the table.

Of course, A2's "T" depends on whether or not someone was underneath him when he grabbed the rim. It didn't sound like it from your description of the play- i.e. you said that A1 and B1 had already separated.


[Edited by Jurassic Referee on May 23rd, 2005 at 06:04 AM]

Well from now on you know that when the ball is inside the basket, it is actually BELOW the cylinder.

4-6-2 . . . Touches the ball while any part of the ball is within the imaginary cylinder which has the basket ring as its lower base.

Now if the ball is spinning around inside the ring, there is a good possibility that part of the ball is within the cylinder. Therefore, BI may still be a correct call.



[Edited by Nevadaref on May 23rd, 2005 at 07:08 AM]

Interesting twist. Suppose A2 DID commit basket interference. I agree you would let A1 shoot the two free throws, but do you penalize the BI? Would you shoot the free throws with the lane cleared, and give the ball to B for a spot throw-in?

If no "T" was called.....

You penalize the offensive BI by waving the basket off, and then penalize B1's foul normally with A1 shooting 2 FT's with players on the lane. Iow, you treat the "waved-off" basket the same as a "missed" basket.

I was just viewing this thread again and realized that I needed to add to my above post for it to be truly correct.

This play cannot be BI under 4-6-2 unless the player touches the BALL. Grasping the ring is not covered by that rule. However, 4-6-4 could be the justification for a BI call here, if the player pulls down the movable ring while the ball is in contact with it. If the player merely grasps the ring, but doesn't pull it down, or if the ring is the old-fashioned type which is not breakaway, I don't think that BI can rightly be called.


RULE 4 - SECTION 6 BASKET INTERFERENCE
Basket interference occurs when a player:
ART. 1 . . . Touches the ball or any part of the basket (including the net) while the ball is on or within either basket.
ART. 2 . . . Touches the ball while any part of the ball is within the imaginary cylinder which has the basket ring as its lower base.
ART. 3 . . . Touches the ball outside the cylinder while reaching through the basket from below.
ART. 4 . . . Pulls down a movable ring so that it contacts the ball before the ring returns to its original position.

EXCEPTION: In Articles 1 or 2, if a player has his/her hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if such contact with the ball continues after it enters a basket cylinder or if in such action, the player touches the basket. Dunking or stuffing is legal and is not basket interference.

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make here, but you're contradicting yourself anyway. If a player grasps the ring while the ball is on or in the basket, then BI sureashell can rightly be called under R4-6-1. The ring is part of the basket. You knew that.

What was I thinking?
 

JR,
You're right, of course, 4-6-1 covers this play quite nicely.

I became so focused on 4-6-2 because ChrisSportsFan was talking about the cylinder that I became blinded to 4-6-1.

What I just posted would be the correct way of handling a play in which the ball was in the imaginary cylinder above the basket, but not on or within it.

Perhaps Padgett would be willing to share some of his meds with me. :)