To those seasoned officials...yet another question

[dhodges007]

I just got done officiating a 12 y/o game. This was my third game for the night and have been working with the same official the whole time. He is the more "seasoned" official, but because of this forum and my desire to learn all of the rules... I may have a better concept of right and wrong vs. popular belief of what a violation truly is.

Let me set the stage for you... This is a gym where the floor is very slippery even with sweep in between games. (I have brand new shoes and slip all the time.) I am in the L position ball is in the key. A1 is getting ready to shoot but she brings the ball way behind her head, like she was going to launch it. B1 comes behind her *no contact from what I can see* and strips the ball. My partner blows the whistle and says foul (later he told me that he called a pushing foul). She goes to the line for two.

Two questions. As T should he have called that in the paint which was clearly mine? Secondly, if you have an obvious blocked shot with a push afterward, do you go to the line for two?

I understand that you didn't see the play and that it is hard to make a call without seeing it first, but I am curious about the correct mechanics and two the correct call in that type of a situation.

Thanks for all you insight...

[BktBallRef]

As T should he have called that in the paint which was clearly mine?

If the player's position were such that he felt you were straight-lined, then yes, he could call a foul in that area. The mechanics manual says that we are responsible for calling anything that we see, regardless of who's "area" it is. Whether there was a foul or not on this play, I have know way of knowing.

Secondly, if you have an obvious blocked shot with a push afterward, do you go to the line for two?

Can't tell you the answer to that without seeing the contact. In some instances, no, and in others, yes.

What does the floor being slippery have to do with any of this?

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
As T should he have called that in the paint which was clearly mine?

If the player's position were such that he felt you were straight-lined, then yes, he could call a foul in that area. The mechanics manual says that we are responsible for calling anything that we see, regardless of who's "area" it is. Whether there was a foul or not on this play, I have know way of knowing.

Secondly, if you have an obvious blocked shot with a push afterward, do you go to the line for two?

Can't tell you the answer to that without seeing the contact. In some instances, no, and in others, yes.

What does the floor being slippery have to do with any of this?

The floor actually caused b1 to come into contact with A1. That is the reason that I didn't call a foul, plus I didn't see a disadvantage because B1 had already blocked the shot.

[KDM]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dhodges007
[B]I just got done officiating a 12 y/o game.


This has to be the longest game on record!

[bigwhistle]

Mike,

Not having seen the play, I will have to make an assumption here that the "push" occurred while the shooter was still in the air after releasing the shot. At a lower level, this contact needs to be called much more frequently than at higher levels where you can ignore a lot of contact after the block was clean.

This is one of the tough things to learn about officiating when you do several different levels of play.

As to whether the call was your partner's in the paint, the paint is a dual coverage area. I have watched many a film where I had no idea what the heck my partner saw at the time, but the film showed that the whistle was needed on the play. There are always more than one angle to every play, and the one you are in may not be the one that shows the infraction.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by dhodges007
B1 comes behind her *no contact from what I can see* and strips the ball. My partner blows the whistle and says foul (later he told me that he called a pushing foul)_

Denny--

My point of emphasis this year has been being a good partner. In this case, it is easy for you to give him the benefit of the doubt. It is highly possible that he saw something you could not have seen. Very likely, the block was clean, but did you see the blocker's other hand? If not, you can be certain it was down in the shooters lower back where no one (including the blocker's coach!) saw the little shove that gave the defense a huge advantage. The way to be a good partner and also learn something is to say, "Thanks for calling that (describe play). I couldn't see the whole thing because I was straightlined. Was the push in the back with the hand, or was it a body block?" This gives him a chance to admit if he thinks he kicked it, and you learn a little about what to watch for next time. Or it gives him some good pats on the back, while you learn what to watch for next time. It also gives you a way to defend your partner, if necessary. "Coach the foul was out of my view because of ... My partner, however, got a very good look." Memorize this sentence -- it will useful in a wide variety of situations.

[JRutledge]

[/i]Two questions. As T should he have called that in the paint which was clearly mine? [/QUOTE]

Look as the paint as both of yours. There are going to be so many players in the paint, you should not look at is as just one person's call all the time. The T has every right and sometimes has a better angle than the L because of who is there and where they are. I would really have to see it, but it is very common that you would have two whistles in this case. Now whether it was a good call is another story.

[/i]Secondly, if you have an obvious blocked shot with a push afterward, do you go to the line for two?[/QUOTE]

My rule of thumb is, "if it is clean up top, nothing on the bottom." I did not see the play, but if the first action of blocking the ball took place first, then the other contact is incidental at best.

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Denny--

My point of emphasis this year has been being a good partner. In this case, it is easy for you to give him the benefit of the doubt. It is highly possible that he saw something you could not have seen. Very likely, the block was clean, but did you see the blocker's other hand? If not, you can be certain it was down in the shooters lower back where no one (including the blocker's coach!) saw the little shove that gave the defense a huge advantage. The way to be a good partner and also learn something is to say, "Thanks for calling that (describe play). I couldn't see the whole thing because I was straightlined. Was the push in the back with the hand, or was it a body block?" This gives him a chance to admit if he thinks he kicked it, and you learn a little about what to watch for next time. Or it gives him some good pats on the back, while you learn what to watch for next time. It also gives you a way to defend your partner, if necessary. "Coach the foul was out of my view because of ... My partner, however, got a very good look." Memorize this sentence -- it will useful in a wide variety of situations.

Thanks for that advise!!

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by dhodges007

Thanks for that advise!!

ADVICE