This is a good one for discussion.

http://thomass2004.home.comcast.net/

I think the initial contact is a foul on the GT player.

After they are on the floor the GT player sort of drops a right elbow to the head area that could be intentional/flagrant. He then throws his arms up in a "who me/I'm not doing anything" type of way that we've all seen before. Reddick responds the way a lot of people would.

I can see the double foul on this one. They were both mixin' it up. The one thing to be careful of, that I've been told, is usually there is one foul that happened first, and if we got that, we wouldn't need to step in with the double. Sometimes, like in this case, if we didn't come in strong with the first one, we have to get both of them.

But save some of these for later - it's a long summer. Besides, how am I going to get any work done today?! :)

I agree Muhommad should have gotten an intentional for that elbow. C should have called the initial push in the back.

Take a look at GT#3 right at the end of the play. He backs away from the play, and then comes right back into the middle of it and gives Reddick a push on the way by.

Thoughts?

#3 is supposed to be stepping in between them. "Supposed to be" is the key. He isn't really doing anything except getting a free/weak push on Reddick.

Mmmmm...I dunno. I saw that too and after the double foul I'm not sure there was enough there to hit the whistle for.

Keep an eye on them though.

I saw that too, but since it happened after the whistle, it doesn't quite seem to be a real flagrent action. But it should be enough to raise a red flag to keep an eye out on both of them. This would be a good time to step in the middle of the players to keep any more of the cheap stuff from happening.

Do you think it would have been nice if the C could've come in with a push on white earlier? This situation could have been avoided.

He got there pretty quick. He came from quite a distance quickly and that play escalated so fast. Both the C and the L jumped in real fast and possibly prevented something much worse.

I'm good with the double foul. I don't think you need anything against the GT player who stepped in afterwards nor the "woofing" by Reddick. (other than "knock it off guys.")

Z

P.S. Thanks for posting these plays tomegon. Fun stuff.

No I am talking about when the ball becomes live, white displaces blue all the way to the middle of the lane. Come get that and the situation doesn't even come about.
AAR

I just watched it again and you are completely right. They totally missed the initial tussle that led up to the foul they did call.

Z

I think AAR is exactly right on this one. Initially at game speed I thought that Reddick had tried to sit down in front of a trailing defender which could have been ruled as incidental contact, but after review, I think that the GT player clearly displces him and all other action were a result of that action. If the C would have came in and got this one, I think it would have prevented all the other crap that ensued... I guess I would have to had been there at game speed to know if I were the C if I would have came and got it...I would like to think that I would...

By the way, AAR, in the military is the acronym for what we conduct after each training event to determine what we did right, and what we did wrong...pretty appropos nickname...

What'd you guys think of the thrower-in run along OOB?

Wow
 

I think that it's incredible how much everybody thinks they see from this clip of about 5 seconds of basketball. Hopefully we all acknowledge that on the court at game speed, everything changes!

Re: Wow
 

Not so sure the speed is different, I think its the same speed, the ability to rewind and replay it several times before making a decision is the critical difference. First time I watched it I didn't see the elbow that the GT player threw, after watching it several more times my call on the play changed.

The cutter was being pushed, held, and basically harrassed from the get-go. If someone had nailed GT #2 for the foul early - the other stuff magically disappears. We hope. :)

I think Reddick has to be called for something here - I'd probably have a false double - intentional foul on GT#2, then an intentional technical foul on Duke#4.

I see the "who me" action by GT, but I missed the elbow being dropped until I watched it several times. It appears to me that the Lead didn't see the elbow drop either. (The elbow drop does look pretty forceful.)

If the Lead didn't see the elbow drop, where do you think the double foul is? It seems to be a significant enough amount of time before the elbow drop and the wrestling action of Reddick. By the time the Lead is looking at them or at least making his call, it looks like the GT player really isn't doing anything.

Just curious about what constitutes the double foul here.

The "slot" sure looks like he is standing behind home plate waiting for the pitch --- why he didn't see the first foul as he goes into the lane befuddles me. There was no "competitive matchup" in his primary -- the next closest matchup was what was going on on the far lane line on the inbound pass play. Get the first foul and we don't penalize the retaliation.