I had the pleasure this past weekend of working with a guy I worked with my first couple of months on the job and it reminded me of a story I have when I worked with him the first time .
I had been reffing about a month and I was starting to get confident about my abilty to "see" the court when I showed up one Saturday morning to work some mid-level AAU games . My partner that day was a seasoned D-1 ref (also a very physically intimidating dude )who I had seen working on numerous occasions (He only worked with one other guy...who happened to be a D-1 guy as well) but I had never spoken with because he didn't "chat" with the other guys . I approached him to speak about how he would like to handle these games (Switching only on shooting fouls or every foul etc) and let him know that I was fairly new and if he saw anything he thought I should work on to let me know . He grunted his answers and we ran through the first half pretty easily although towards the end of the half he seemed to get a little lazy on signalling a 3 point attempt when he was the lead and the ball was down in his corner so I helped him out and signalled the 3 point attempt was good when they went in . This also happened a few times in the second half an I again helped him out and the game ended with no issues . I was feeling pretty happy with myself for holding my own with a respected veteran and when we went into the locker room to rest between games I asked him if there was anything I needed to work on . He looked me right in the eye for about 4 seconds without saying anything and then said "If you keep looking in my area and signal one more three pointer I will break your F*&*&$ arms" then he turned and walked away. Needless to say I was shocked and the next two games I don't even think I looked anywhere near his primary (a little bit of an exageration)..
We sat down after the game and he actually told me that he had been watching me ref and had requested to work with me because he had noticed two things 1)I had a desire to get better because he heard me asking questions to some of the veteran officials there and then actually listening to their answers. 2) He noticed I was ball watching and wanted to break me of the habit and get me to trust my partners .
Lesson learned !!!! A good friend was made and I ball watch no more !



[Edited by WeekendRef on Apr 19th, 2005 at 12:06 AM]

Good story!

Great title!

Aren't you suppose to mirror his signal when the 3 pointer is good? :confused:

The D-1 partner WAS lead, so it would have been proper for WkndRef to mirror, if the lead signalled. I couldn't tell from his description whether he didn't signal at all, or whether it was just not a good signal. And the partner didn't say that the shots weren't 3's, just that he didn't want WkndRef to signal. WHich I agree with you, I don't understand.

Looks to me like the D-1 dude was setting him up. I am guessing he purposely didn't signal, thereby baiting weekendref into signalling, and then getting the opportunity to mention his little arm breaking thing....

clarification
 

Sorry....I was trying to cut corners last night because the post was a lot longer then intended .
1)My partner was not signalling at all even though the shots were clearly 3 point attempts .
2) he was definitely setting me up me to see if my eyes were where they should not have been
3) He actually turned out to be a great guy once I got to know him and He has really taken me under his wing . His method of correcting my ball watching while unorthodox is one I will never forget and may even use when I become a mentor to some young wide eyed official .

Re: clarification
 

He may be an OK guy, but his method of correcting your ball watching was stupid and out-of-line. We're adults and there are ways to correct another official's weaknesses without dropping F-bombs or threatening. You took it well, but most newer officials would find his method discouraging rather than constructive. Hopefully when you are in the mentoring position, you'll be more mature than him.

Z

Z ,
I agree his method was a little crude but apparantly he read his audience well and it was highly successful in getting me to remain in my primary . When / if I do use this when mentoring I will probably use a more lightheated approach as that is my personality . My partner has a different way of communicating but it was effective in this instance.....I do plan on asking him if he has done this before .
This weekend I did a set of games with him and during the last one the coach of one of the teams starts complaining before the game even starts and just continues the whole game (Not loud but barely enough for us to hear). I T him up midway thru the first half and then at half my partner tells me that the guy is really gonna have to say something out of line to get the second T because there was no way he was gonna let that coach get out of the broiling hot gym and enjoy the best day of the year if he couldn't get outside.
Late in the game during a timeout the coach asks us if we are "patched" because I was wearing a plain ref shirt as was my partner . My partner just looked down at him and said "No,but we did stay at a Holiday Inn last night" coming from him (As I have said he is a large intimidating man )it might have been one of the funniest things I have ever heard . Coach spent the rest of the game sitting on the bench sweating and did not say another word the whole game .

This is the kind of thing that facinates me about moving up to "the next level". I think the key to this whole discussion was how the seasoned D-1 guy read his partner and was able to get the ball-watching point across in an effective manner. I would be willing to bet he doesn't use that method on everyone. Using the Holiday Inn line works on some people, but not others. The key is knowing when to use it. At some level, I think we all have essentially the same judgement, skills, and rules knowledge, but what helps the better ones move up is their ability to handle people.

I'd like to bet that if he did that to most people, he would have never been able to see if it worked because while he worked the 2nd game he would have been looking at tail lights as we left the parking lot.

I'm glad it worked and you'll always remember that. I consider myself fairly humble and want my game to be critiqued in every way, but I'm still an adult and don't know if I could have continued working with him that day.

it wasn't that bad
 

c'mon what the D-1 guy said wasn't that bad...as for being humble and wanting critiqued that is a great asset...but to get in your car and leave because he dropped an fbomb or the way he handled it, to me shows quite the opposite of humble. The chances to work with officials of that level are few and far between, I can't think that any of us here wouldn't want the opportunity, even at lower levels. I am not sure what it would take from a D-1 guy for me not to want to finish the day with him and learn...maybe something along the lines of

"hey you suck, and if you step on this floor with me again I am leaving" :D

... but short of that I finish out the day and welcome any advice or comment....

Good Lord. I probably would have laughed if he said that to me. Then I might have made a joke out of it. Of course we are going to have people here that would be offended. These individuals get offended over the spilling a glass of milk. If they would have left, then let them leave. It is not everyone's job to not offend someone at some point. The official wanted to get the point across and he got his point across. That is all that matters at this point. Not everyone is going make you feel good when they are critiquing you. That is not how the world works.

Peace

"Fine. But the next time a coach jumps my a$$ because your can't get your f$*%ing arm in the air, I'm gonna rip your head off and $hit down your neck!"

:)

Re: it wasn't that bad
 

You might want to sit down and think for a minute about what you said; there's alot of ways to communicate and sure, not everyone is good at it or even very tactful but I'm not interested in someone threatening assault as an attempt to teach me something.

On the other hand, if that doesn't bother you then you're alot thicker skinned than I am.

If this guy really is a D1 official, he sure didn't get there by talking to people like that and if you're willing to take that then go for it, but for me I'm not going to kis this guys arsk just so he can give me some advice. There's way to many "good guys" from those ranks who are willing to be helpful in a friendly way.

Quote:

Originally posted by WeekendRef "If you keep looking in my area and signal one more three pointer I will break your F*&*&$ arms!"

People get fired for using this language in the workplace. People get the heck beat out of them when they speak to people this way. The guy may be a good ref at the D-1 level, but if he can't get his point across in a better way, he ain't the sharpest tool in the shed.

Z

I guess my question is: If he wasn't signalling three point attempts, and you're not supposed to, how does the team score a 3?

I don't think it's very good teaching technique to not do a good job, and then rip someone for trying to pick up the pieces. He was supposed to signal, and he didn't. And then when you're trying to just, "get the call right" and "maintain crew integrity" and be sure that the game is fair, he's going to drop an F-bomb on you? Sorry, I don't think that's cool. And I wouldn't take it at this point. I probably would have five years ago. But it would have eaten me up until I dealt with it. I sure wouldn't want to work with him again!

WeekendRef, whatever you take from the experience, I hope it's not to pass along the technique to the next guy. You took it and made lemonade, but that doesn't make the tool any less of a lemon!

Speaking of training aids/methods. I am a third year JV official working a 2-whistle girls varsity game. My partner, a long time veteran came to me during a break in the action - around the second quarter - and told me I was doing a good job. BUT - he told me I needed to take it to the next level. That I needed to look through the play and see my partner. He said he was going to wave his hand and at the moment I saw the wave that I was to wave back.

Well, a whole new concept visualized before me. I could see my partner looking either on or off ball and on occasion I was able to wave back. (2 of 5 waves). Well, it was a start.

Now I have games in which I get into a zone - one in which I see so much more than before. All started from the "wave".

Workplace?
 

First of all this is not the work place. Working an AAU game is an extra-curricular activity. To compare the workplace to what is basically a hobby is very silly. If you do not want anyone to talk to you in that way, quit officiating (or any hobby that you get offended by words). And whether any of us like it or not, a D1 official probably has some respect that a younger official does not. Even if you feel you were wronged, there are people that really could give a damn. It would be no different if I was playing a video game and the person I was playing called me a name. You have to learn to when to fight your battles and when to walk away. He made his point and WeekendRef got the point. That is all that matters.

Peace

Wow, that's a great idea, thanks!
http://www.nt.net/hostagal/smiley%20waving.gif



You might find this hard to believe but a lot of people will not quit at the first sign of trouble.

Why would you think that?
 

I do not find it hard to believe at all. Officiating is not a hobby, avocation or extra-curricular activity that is for the faint of heart.

If I got upset every time someone used a bad word in my presence, I would quit long time ago.

Peace

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! It was a JOKE.

Now some of you wouldn't appreciate a joke like that being played on you. Maybe, just maybe, the D1 official is smart enough to know who can and who cannot take a joke. Remember that he had been watching weekendref for a couple games.

Oh man, that's a good one. You're going to "break my F#*$ing arms"... Oh man, I gotta catch my breath. That's such a funny joke. Oh good one.. my sides are splitting.

Sorry, but your excuse for this D-1 official doesn't wash. Dropping the F-bomb doesn't take any intelligence at all. I wouldn't even use that language in a joking manner with a partner that I'd been reffing with for 10 years.

Z

Then crawl in a hole and hope no one uses any language toward you that will upset you. Not everyone cares that you would be upset. It could be a D1 official, NBA official or some guy in the stands. He did not say it to you. He said it to someone else. :rolleyes:

Peace

I'd just ignore it if someone said that to me. Just pointing out that it takes more intelligence to get that point across without dropping F-bombs. That is all. Doesn't matter whether the guy is D-1 or NBA. Decency transcends all competency levels. I wouldn't expect you to understand.

When I started officiating, I got lots of feedback. Most of it was presented in a constructive way. A few officials lacked tact in their input. For most officials, the message gets lost when the messenger is a jackass. If you think that saying "I'm going to break your F#*%ing arms" is a good way to get a point across and it works for you, congratulations on your fine communication skills.

Z

[Edited by zebraman on Apr 21st, 2005 at 10:59 AM]

Give me a break.

Decency has much more to do with whether a profanity is used or not. Then again, I do not equate things into a small package like you do. I tend to look at the world through a bigger lens and scope. So if you stop listening because someone used a certain word, then that is your loss. Some of the most evil people I have ever met do not curse and go to church ever Sunday. Some of the most decent people I have meant and the most helpful people, curse a lot, drink alcohol and gamble on a regular basis.

You are right, I would not understand. Especially when I do not judge people like you do based on very limited contact and interaction. As I have stated before, there are internet officials and real officials. You sound like an internet official to me. ;)

Peace

Can I use this?

Yep. :D

Peace

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge
Decency has much more to do with whether a profanity is used or not.

<b>
Yes, you are right. Telling someone you are going to "break their F$#*ing arms" is quite decent.
</b>

Then again, I do not equate things into a small package like you do. I tend to look at the world through a bigger lens and scope.

<b>
Oh yes Rut, we all admire your deep thought and ability to write meaningless manifestos.
</b>

Some of the most evil people I have ever met do not curse and go to church ever Sunday. Some of the most decent people I have meant and the most helpful people, curse a lot, drink alcohol and gamble on a regular basis.

<b>
I didn't say that he's evil. He might be an OK guy. He just doesn't sound like he's a gifted enough communicator to get his point across without using profanity.
</b>

You are right, I would not understand. Especially when I do not judge people like you do based on very limited contact and interaction. As I have stated before, there are internet officials and real officials. You sound like an internet official to me. ;)

<b>
That sounds judgemental. :eek:
</b>

Z

You don't judge people but you just judged Z. You've never met Z but he's an "internet official" and not a "real official".

Makes sense. :rolleyes:

You know, now that I know that weight doesn't seem to be as big an issue anymore, I don't feel guilty using real butter...

In never said you claimed he was evil, but you said that he lacked decency. That is your opinion, especially when the comments were not made to you. What this official said had little or nothing to do with decency or lack of decency. He was making a point and wanted that point to come across. It seemed to come across as stated by the person that he said it to. You were not there. I was not there. I do not know if the person was angry or joking. I see a lot of people use more than the F-word here, never have seen you go off on them for their "lack of decency" you seemed to be so upset by. If the person this D1 official was talking to got the message and has admitted somewhat of a bond after this, then who in the hell are you to tell them they are wrong? If he said it to you, then you have the right to come up and say something to ignore the advice. But he was not talking to you, so that is not the issue.

It might have been judgmental to call you an "internet official," but in most of our contact with each other, that is exactly what you sound like. For someone that has no idea the respect I get as an official or a human being, you have some balls telling me what decency is. Especially when you have shown none here when issues that I feel are important are expressed. All you do is come around and tell people what offends you and how bad of a person they are. So what goes around comes around.

Peace

What's wrong with being an internet official? Sounds kinda cool to me, I would love to be able to dq folks from the internet. Not to mention the money I would save in gas alone.

Let me try to elucidate...
 

never at any time did I feel physically threatened in any way shape or form....I took his message as it was intended . It was my partners way of hammering home a point with me .
Obviously with some people it would not have gone over so well but then again he said it to ME and his choice of words did not offend ME . If he had said "try and stay in your primary because I see you eyes drifting" I may have understood him but I may have forgotten that in a few days...I will never forget what he said because of his choice of words .
The fact that someone drops an F bomb does not make them a poor communicator . Sometimes it is a very good way of getting your point across but you have to know your audience .
I am an atheiest but if I ever happened to be talking in a church I would not curse out of respect to that audience but if I was in a business meeting I would not hesitate (and nor have I) to use one of Carlins words to hammer home a point .
just my thoughts which sometimes don't add up to much....

I would like to rescind my last post
 

Evidently Rut and I are saying a lot of the same things and now I am REALLY REALLY REALLY scared . I have NEVER agreed with Rut on anything and I really don't think it's fair to start now :)
I need a 3 brown pop lunch to calm me down and I don't even really drink !

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

It might have been judgmental to call you an "internet official," but in most of our contact with each other, that is exactly what you sound like.

<b>
Yes, it was judgemental. And presumptive. I'm not going to list how many times I've been to state or how many state championships I've worked. What purpose would that serve? Not even sure what an "internet official" is.
</b>

For someone that has no idea the respect I get as an official or a human being, you have some balls telling me what decency is.

<b>
I didn't try to define decency. For the last time.... it takes more communication skills and intelligence to get a point across and be helpful to an official without using the F-bomb. People with good communication skills understand that point. I'm in a mentoring position in my assoc and have had many officials thank me for giving them things to work on in an encouraging and helpful style. Then they tell me about some of the jackasses (their words, not mine) who make them feel like little kids being berated by their fathers. They tell me it goes in one ear and out the other when they get that kind of input. For the most part, officials are adults. Any reason not to treat them like adults? I suppose only if you aren't a good enough communicator to get your point across in a positive way.
</b>

Especially when you have shown none here when issues that I feel are important are expressed.

<b>
I've agreed with you on many issues. I've disagreed with you on many others. So sorry if your little feelers got hurt when I didn't give you enough props on some of your manifestos. :D
</b>

All you do is come around and tell people what offends you and how bad of a person they are. So what goes around comes around.

<b>
Like I said in my previous post, I didn't say this person was a bad individual. From their actions described, they just apparently have trouble communicating and are forced to swear and threaten to get their point across.
</b>

Z

Re: I would like to rescind my last post
 

Read very many of Rut's posts and you will become a MAJOR drinker...just ask Jurassic - he's had to sign many of us up for his on-line AOA meetings (that's Alcoholic Officials Anonymous)...some of those posts are pretty hard to read too!

Read very many of Rut's posts and you will become a MAJOR drinker...just ask Jurassic - he's had to sign many of us up for his on-line AOA meetings (that's Alcoholic Officials Anonymous)...some of those posts are pretty hard to read too! [/B][/QUOTE]Here's Rocky at the latest AOA meeting....

http://www.gifs.net/animate/bugbike.gif

Here's Rocky at the latest AOA meeting....

http://www.gifs.net/animate/bugbike.gif [/B][/QUOTE]

Whatever that picture is, it must be good - my server at work is automatically editing it out of the post!!