The Official Forum - Control of Ball

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Sometimes in the process of catching the ball it goes to the floor off the player's hands as he/she is getting control/possession. When is it considered a dribble and when is it not considered a dribble. I have seen various calls on this and I am usually confused.

What you are refering to is considered a fumble. It is like an incomplete pass in football. The player does not have control of the ball. In a dribble, the player has obvious control of the ball when he pushes it to the floor.

I see a lot of officials call violations when there is not control. I am involved in referee education here and it is difficult to make them understand at times when a player is holding or dribbling a live ball. I notice that females in chasing a loose ball try to gain control by batting at the ball instead of just grabbing it. I look at it this way. The purpose of a dribble is to advance the ball down the court while walking or running. Also if a player is dribbling then he or she should be able to pick up the ball to pass or shoot. If the "perceived control" does not enable this then it is probably not a dribble. However each situation must be seen to be judged. Also the players and coaches and even spectators who have no idea can put pressure on an in experienced referee to make a call.

Well that is enough rambling on.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by John Choiniere on 12-21-1999 02:46 PM
Sometimes in the process of catching the ball it goes to the floor off the player's hands as he/she is getting control/possession. When is it considered a dribble and when is it not considered a dribble. I have seen various calls on this and I am usually confused.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One important factor is frequently the player may muff the pass, put does push the ball towards the floor to bounce it and gain better control. That pushing of the ball to the floor is player control, and counts as a dribble.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by PublicBJ on 12-22-1999 04:26 PM
One important factor is frequently the player may muff the pass, put does push the ball towards the floor to bounce it and gain better control. That pushing of the ball to the floor is player control, and counts as a dribble.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

By rule, it can't be. A dribble is started by a player already in player control. That means that before his push to the floor can be considered a dribble, he must have already held the ball (or dribbled previously). If the ball comes to rest in his hand prior to the push, then you have player control and it is the start of a dribble. If the ball never came to rest in his hand, no matter how much he seems to "control" the push, it is not a dribble. The pertinent rules are 4-15-1 which defines a dribble and says it is caused by a player in control, and 4-12-1, which defines player control.

I used this interpretation once to determine a no-call on an over and back when a player smacked a rebound all the way into the backcourt where it was recovered by a teammate. Even though he directed it that way, he never "held" the ball, so there was never any player control, therefore no team control established after the original try. The other team's coach complained, but what else is new?

Mark is on the ball.

My reply above was meant to draw this response although I was hoping someone else may have grabbed it. Mark already appears to be over educated. Ha Ha!!!! Coaches and players will be going ape when this is called correctly especially when it takes 2 or 3 attempts to gain control of the ball. It is like what came first the chicken or the egg.

And do your players (probably not in the better standard games)insist on catching the ball and having that one dribble and then picking it up. I guess you cannot blame some coaches from getting frustrated.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mark Padgett on 12-23-1999 11:15 PM
By rule, it can't be. A dribble is started by a player already in player control. That means that before his push to the floor can be considered a dribble, he must have already held the ball (or dribbled previously). If the ball comes to rest in his hand prior to the push, then you have player control and it is the start of a dribble. If the ball never came to rest in his hand, no matter how much he seems to "control" the push, it is not a dribble. The pertinent rules are 4-15-1 which defines a dribble and says it is caused by a player in control, and 4-12-1, which defines player control.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now I disagree. You are interpreting it to say that you must have player control before beginning a dribble. I argue that the dribble can initiate player control.

Using your definition, if a player bounce passes to another player, and that player does not catch it, but begins to dribble the already bouncing ball, he is not in player control. So he should be able to catch his own dribble (bouncing ball), establish player control, then begin his dribble. WRONG. Anyone here would call the illegal dribble.

4-12-1 (PLAYER CONTROL) - A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding OR DRIBBLING a live ball in bounds.

4-15-1 (DRIBBLE) - A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times.

I stand by the original statement that says if a player bounces the ball to gain control of the ball, that's a dribble. Because the bouncing of the ball initiates the player control. The caveat is that if the ball is still obviously a loose ball (not a controlled bounce), then obviously control has not initiated, and it's not a dribble.

Unfortunately, I can't find a good example of this in the case book, either way...

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Brian Johnson