I wish the NF would change the rule where the head coach can call a to. I think the NF should go back to the old rule where the players had to call the to.
When they adopted the current rule, I did't fore see the problems. I get as much grief over this situation as any other.
In my area the coaches begin the game with the strategy of requesting a to when their team is about to gain control or lose control of the ball during scrambling situations. The coaches get extremely frustrated when they don't get the to when they ask for it. Sometimes the held ball, foul, violation, or oob happens before you can recognize the to.
Do you agree that the rule is very hard to enforce without infuriating the teams.
Here are some of the situations I'm sure officials encounter.
1. A1 is triple teamed, about to step on the oob line, about to travel, he's being hacked at, a gym full of screamers, and from 50 feet away the coach is asking for a to.
2. It's hard to recognize who's calling the to. This takes time sometimes.
3. Sometimes it takes time to determine who's geting the ball and who's calling a to.
4. Coaches are constantly yelling out strategy that sounds like time out. (ex. 3 out, pull it out, 4 out)
I'm guessing the rules committee didn't adopt the rule for the reasons its being used.
I think the coaches would be in favor of the current rule, but if I was on the rules committee this rule would be at the top of my list for change. Other opinions, please. Staighten me out if my opinion is not a good one.

The HC and players can request a time out. The only people on the floor that can call a time out are the officials. Just because someone request it does not mean that they are going to get it because of all the reasons you cited.

IMO, the HC should train their players on when the should request a timeout. If they are double or triple teamed and can't get out of it or the are being pressed in the backcourt they should also be aware of the time situation.

I feel that the rule is fine the way it is written. I think more coaches should teach their players when it is appropriate to request a timeout.

I agree with Redhouse - the coaches need to be reminded they can REQUEST a timeout, but only a referee can GRANT it. It's a fine line, but I think more coaches are starting to understand it. Some coaches may just be frustrated when there's a turnover as they are asking for the TO, and they may direct that frustration towards you, but it's not your fault if you can't hear the request over the screaming throng. I like the idea of the coach being able to request the TO. Sometimes it's just keeping that line of communication open.

His players can help him out with requesting time outs. If the coach hasn't taken the time to teach his players when to "use one", that's not our prob. I usually mention to capts in the pregame that "we'll be watching you and not your coach so if he wants a timeout, you need to help him out".

Sometimes coaches get mad at us for not honoring the TO request, but he didn't have control of the ball so we couldn't (shrug).

I have gotten so used to the rule. It does not matter to me anymore. If a coach requests the timeout and I do not see him, I do not grant it. If that coach complains, I make it clear I do not grant timeouts with a coach out of my vision. I will tell coaches you need to have your players aware of when you are calling timeouts. I used to worry about it, but not anymore. There are many interpretations and examples that make it clear what the officials are supposed to do. At some point the coaches need to pick up a rulebook or read about what officials do. They get upset over everything else, why not this?

Peace

You guys are over looking the problem. It's not the semantics of calling a TO verses requesting one. It's the fact that coaches think the TO should be granted when the yell, no matter the situation.

IMHO, it puts the coaches in a position they shouldn't be in- it puts them in the game and on the floor! We don't need that.

Who cares what coaches think? They think a lot of things that are completely wrong. They think we are supposed to talk to them no matter what as well. I do not care what coaches think. Officials should feel the same.

There are a lot of things we do not need, but they happen. I was opposed to this rule when they put it in. I have just adjusted my thinking and accept that it is here to stay. They have even changed the rules in other sports I work to mirror this. If a coach complains, you explain what the dilly-oh is.

Peace

I think we actually agree about the coaches, but this also points out it IS about semantics. A lot of coaches think the TO happens when they say, "Time out!". When we don't grant it, for whatever reason, it's our fault and their team just got hosed. They don't understand the difference between asking and granting. The coaches that do understand the difference know how to ask us when they're nearby, or have a player get our attention, without being on the floor. The smarter coaches also have a tendancy to have smarter players.

I wouldn't say that anyone is overlooking it. We know it's an issue but that's what it is. Sometimes when a game becomes very intense, I'll remind a coach that it's his job to get our attention if he wants a TO. The other thing is that we know if a coach "should" be taking a timeout and sometimes it's worth it to take a peek his way to see if he's asking for it.

Coaches being able to request TO from the bench because of something that happens on the floor IS AN ISSUE. It's a bad rule and no amount of us trying to educate them on the "request vs. calling" semantic is going to fix the problem. The problem is greater than that.

Hypothetical..Trail is table side...first half , 2 person, coach sees a trap coming up at midcourt, his player passes midcourt and is immediately trapped. We hear someone yelling time out. We turn around to see if it is really the head coach...we pick him up ...and it really is the head coach. We turn around to pick up the play. Team B has knocked the ball loose, and is heading for an uncontested lay up.

That's why i don't like the rule the way it is written. Make the players call time out.

True. Let's look at this from this angle...Coach is yelling to "get back on defense", or "get your hands up", "box out and get the rebound", or "cut, I said cut", is he yelling for us to do those things or his players? He could yell to his players to call a TO. IMO, the current rule is fine, players just need to understand their responsibility here and step up.

The best way to demonstrate the difference between them "requesting" and "calling" is when for whatever reason you don't grant them the TO and they still end up with the ball (OOB off of opponent in a tie up situation, for example). Ask the coach "You still want the TO you ASKED for?" the answer is always "nope".

I have found it not to be an issue. It is just one of those parts of the game that make basketball officiating interesting.

Peace

If you've got a trap,double-team,triple-team,whatever in your primary, do <b>not</b> turn away from that play to look at the bench. Keep officiating the play. If the coach can't understand "why" you didn't look at the bench at that particular moment to confirm who was requesting the TO, too bad.

If you're at 4 on a 5-second closely guarded count, and you hear a TO request behind you out of your vision, would you stop the count to turn around and confirm that the head coach was calling the TO?

As Tony said, terrible rule.

I'm not convinced it's a terrible rule. There have been some examples given of difficult situations, but there are ways around those situations. In FrankHTown's example on the trap, if you know Team A has the ball, and you turn around to verify it's Team A's coach calling the timeout, blow it dead and sell the timeout. If B stole it in that fraction, they are not going to complain too much if you sell the call and explain it why it was granted. Also, where's your partner in this instance? Your partner needs to be aware of the possibility of the TO and to watch for it if the trap is in your area.

Taking away the coach's ability to call TO will not necessarily fix this either. As you're focused on the trap, or 5-second count, what if the coach tells one of his players to call timeout, and that player is not in your field of vision? You or your partner still need to know it's the team in control asking for TO. And that could come from anywhere on the court. At least you know where the coach is (approximately ;)) so it's easier to be aware.

Sorry but I don't see as where this has anything to do with it. No mater what he's saying, I watching what's happening, not listening to someone behind me.

I'm not interested in demonstrating the difference to him. My concern is what happening in front of me when the coach is yelling.

Yes, we know. You never have an issue with anything.

You mean to tell me that you're going to turn your head away from a trap to look at a coach? :confused:

There is ZERO chance that that player is going to be standing behind me, OOB.

The game got along for decades without a coach being able to request a TO. It's an unnecessary evil.

From the 2003-04POE's--POE#4-"Officials should verify that it is indeed the head coach requesting the time-out and that the ball is in possession of the calling team. <b>Coaches must understand that just because they've requested the time-out, doesn't guarantee that it will be granted. Officials have other responsibilities to the game that may require their immediate attention</b>." Some of these other responsibilities are covering traps, continuing counts, etc. You can pre-game to get help from your partners, <b>if</b> they happen to be looking at that bench and don't have other off-ball responsibilities.

I haven't been doing it for decades, so I can't comment directly about that. ;) I also totally agree about that player OOB. But that's not what I said. I mentioned a player outside your field of vision. If it is not the player directly involved in the trap, either you or your partner(s) has to look and acknowledge whoever is requesting the timeout, player or coach. As for looking away from a trap, if it's close, intense, etc., of course I'm not going to turn my head away. But if there's some way I can see both, I still have to make sure it's the coach (or player) of the team in control. But that's where pre-gaming with your partner will help. They should know you cannot leave what you're watching, so they should be aware of TO requests.

This all brings to mind a question I've long wondered about, which is, "When is a time-out officially granted?" Here's what I mean.

A1 dribbles into a trap (okay, she's not very smart). She's getting close to a 5-second violation. Coach A requests a time-out. Ref glances at Coach A, sees that it is in fact the coach, and then blows the whistle. In the time it takes for the coach to get the refs attention and for the ref to blow the whistle, B1 gets her hands on the ball. At what point in the process of request, glance, whistle is the TO considered to have been granted so that the held ball might not be called?

Well, here's how I usually handle it. If I'm watching the play, and I hear a request for the TO, and I know it can be legally granted, but I just don't know for sure who's calling it, I look up to see who's asking. If it is the team in control, I hit the whistle. If something happens in the meantime, I have explained that I granted the TO when it was requested, but there was a slight delay so I could verify it was indeed the right coach who made the request. Just like a delayed whistle for a foul; the whistle didn't cause the ball to become dead, the foul did. Using that same logic, I granted the TO (in my mind), and then verified it and blew the whistle. There's probably not a casebook backup to that, so use at your discretion.

Tony,

Just because you do not like the rule, does not mean the rest of us have to agree with you. This is an easily solved problem. If a coach is too dumb to figure out what that is, tough luck.

Peace

From the sounds of it I can offer an interesting perspective. I'm 23 and have been doing this for a couple of years. This means in my experience the head coach has always been able to call a time out. I've got no problem with the rule at all.

If I've got a trouble sit. where a coach might want a TO (trap, triple team, etc.) I ref the game and don't grant it if I can't verify it's the coach. If he gets upset I very briefly explain why I didn't grant it and if he continues like a jerk I whack him. I have no problem calling the game right, talking to the coach and taking care of business if need be. I've actually found that having to pay attention to a coach TO has helped my game awareness and game management.

I think that we need to feel confident enough not to grant the TO, explain why, and then talk to the coach and diffuse the situation. Oh yeah, and whack when necessary. Peace.

I know that there is at least one member of the NCAA Men's Rule Committee who would like to see this rule removed from the book. Don't know if it will happen, but at least someone agrees with those of us who hate the rule.

The problem with the rule allowing a coach to request a time-out is not the fact that it's allowed, but rather the resulting actions of the coach when the request is missed.

I agree totally, and don't think it should be an issue. Referee's should feel comfortable in talking to the coach when appropriate and then moving on. If the coach doesn't move on, you know what to do. Don't think I'm the kind of guy who whacks on a whim, but technicals are excellent tools in the arsenal. Peace.

Forgive my tardiness on chiming in here, but I have been away with military obligations...(this Army thing always interferes with my reffing...smile), but I have really enjoyed reading this post and the varying opinions contained. I had a situation, while doing a closely contested varsity girls game this past year. Offense has the lead and up by one point near the end of the game. I am in the trail position as the PG dribbles into a trap, which coincidently is directly across from the coach of the team in possession of the ball. As a result of my court position my back is turned to the bench, however the trap is in my primary, so I am reffing the action. I hear a TO request from behind me. I am almost certain it was the head coach, since I have heard her for most of the game...nothing despariging, but let's just say she had a good set of lungs, and a distinctive voice. However, because I could not see her I did not grant the TO, and almost immediately after the requesst was granted her PG turns the ball over, and the other team goes down to score the winning basket. Although, I was sure I applied the rule correctly, the human side of me could not help but to sympathize with the coach, who felt the TO should have been granted. She even shook my hand the next time I saw her and told me what a good official she thought I was, and the topic of the TO never came up, but I still have reservations about wheather I did the right thing within the spirit of the rule...I understand that by rule, I did what was right, but I still didn't feel good about the call...

Thank you!
 

agmattbballref,

First of all, I thank you for doing that "Army thing".
Welcome home!

It seems you did not grant the time-out.

Keep in mind that you do not have to visually recognize the coach. A recognizable voice is sufficient.

Now, in your case, if I hear the request while the point guard has the ball, then turn to recognize the coach, then I will blow the whistle as I am turning back toward the ["Aw, shucks the ball is gone !!!?!."].

Then, however, I may have to tell the other coach that I had recognized the request "while their team still had the ball". ;)
mick

Players can still call for timeout and good coaches should remind their players to do so. After all, if anyone can recognize a coach's yell, it is a player. :D