During the course of an AAU tournament this w/e, I had occasion to babble the following retorts to game officials

On a suspect block call, official explained...
"He was moving, Coach."

My reply..."yes, but did he have legal guarding position???

2nd one, offensive player on move toward basket, gets fouled and official proclaims "on the floor"

I fired back, "Sure, he was on the floor, but was he in the act of shooting???"

I think officials who verbalize "On the floor" are making their determination of continuous motion on this aspect alone, not the definition in the Rules Book.

A littlt rules knowledge is a dangerous thing, especially on the bench!!!!

May as well just substitute "educated" with "smartass".

What do you think is the appropriate response to a coach who begins inquiries with subtly trying to one-up the official?

Quite honestly Coach, when I'm working, I'm concentrating on what's happening on the floor. I'm not thinking about what you're asking or saying, especially if the ball is still live and you're talking. So I'm more likely to say, "On the floor," as opposed to "The player had not yet begun his shooting motion." Further, I'm not going to attempt to explain the rule or terminology, especially when I figure the coach won't know what i'm talking about.

Take for example the three coaches who erupted yesterday when the throw-in pass went off A1, into the BC, where she then retrieved it. Or possibly the coach who wanted traveling called when a player fell down while dribbling. It's just a waste of breath to try and give an informed answer, especially while play continues.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Apr 3rd, 2005 at 09:50 PM]

Yep, it can. Especially when you get Whacked! :) How many times did the official come up to you and ask why you aren't switched to a box and 1 or why your player missed a free throw?

Let us do our job and you can do yours :)

While your knowledge of the rules is appreciated, use it to support us rather than try to make us look like idiots. The idea of coming on here to brag to us the silly face a ref gave you when you clapped your hands applauding a good player control call even though the other team's defender was moving because you identified the defender was in legal guarding position. A ref seeing you explain that to your players who are all screaming "he was moving" is much more effective than being a show-off to up the ref :)

The parlays in my initial post were during dead ball periods and were conducted in whispered tones. My composed demeanor during games almost always results in an unsolicited explanation of calls that provoke me to stand up.
I probably would accept a quick "on the floor" from an esteemed official such as yourself but the official in question was laboring under an officiating myth. Rather than use proper judgement to determine when the infraction occurred, he resorted only to looking where it took place. In my estimation, officials who resort to using "On the floor" are liable to just as much censure as ignorant coaches and fans who prate "Over the back".
As to those coaches you dealt with yesterday, perhaps you can steal a page from my book.....give them a small card that directs them to http://www.officialforum.com/forum/3...

justacoach,

I for one, did not take your comments as smart-***. I think they are reasonable questions. In my games, I think we would have had a nice polite conversation. I acually appreciate coaches who demonstrate that they have read the rules.

Z

Of course this time of year (AAU) all I got for any coach who feels the need to question if I thought his player had lgp is "I blew the foul on him didn't I??"

I went to a camp last summer where the "on the floor" discussion took place. Assignors told us to never say, "on the floor," for the reasons the coach gave. Instead, if you're waving a shot off, say, "no shot."

Had a play today where B1 was playing good defense. Dribbler had picked up the ball and jumped into B1 to pass the ball. Her arms frailed into thedefender and the "pass" was stolen. I was T going to L, and the coach started on me as soon as I crossed the division line. The opponent scored and as we head back up the floor, he's still mouthing. Stop sign. Move down the floor, another turnover, and we're coming back. And he's still crying. WHACK!

The next time he spoke to me was late in the 2nd half. "Excuse me Mr. Ref., but wasn't my player fouled on that last play?"

Funny how much more whispered his tone was. :)

Every foul takes place on the floor

You may wanna say "I <b>called</b> the foul on him, didn't I?"

T'other way, what you mighta heard back was "Yep, you sureashell did <b>blow</b> that foul call on him". That's what I woulda said to you anyway. Of course, then you'd probably put my old wrinkled a$$ in the parking lot- being the miserable sh*t that you are.

Let's just reel this f&cker in & we can all go home early. ;)

http://pages.prodigy.net/ramingus/Hooked.jpg

Did he ever answer that question, or did he just walk away silently?

I would think it's okay if he answered that question and said he wasn't in the act of shooting. But I agree that there probably could have been something better said than "on the floor," although the phrase does seem to have grown to mean that it was before the shot.

"Before the shot" takes the same time and gives a more accurate picture of the play and your understanding of it.

"No shot" takes even less time, come to think of it....

Though I must admit I am usually guilty of saying "No shot...floor...."

You've never had an airborne shooter fouled?

I've had the same "no shot" conversation at camps before. I don't have to to have the conversation with a coach when I call a foul on his kid when the other player was "on the floor" but in the act of shooting.

Coach, if your comments were as you say (during dead ball situations and discussed between you and the ref ONLY) then you and I would have probably had a fun game. Since so few coaches choose to communicate like that, many refs will automatically assume you to be a smartax and ignore you. I don't mind a little conversation with a coach so long as it doesn't interfer with what I'm there to do.