Hi new to the board, I'm not an official

Joe Gilmore · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2005, 11:20pm

After the Duke Michigan State game, I wanted to check few things on the officiating (which was horrible, granted I'm not a ref but the few high school coaches I've talked to agree, now nor are they officials). Anyways the ESPN search engine sent me to this board and right away I learned a few things just looking around.

Here are my questions -
Who was officiating this game? What conference was this crew from?

Even with fouling at the end to stop the clock and get the ball back, how could Duke have as many team fouls as Michigan St?

The longest 4.2 seconds of all time? Another thread already answered this so thanks.

The magic in and out put back by Williams? Another thread already answered that so thanks.

The make up call at the other end?

Coach K and a few high profile coaches start working the refs as soon as the ball is tipped, does this make any difference?

Williams' 5th foul, the one where his arms were at his sides?

Billy Packer as is the majority of the CBS cast is clueless in all regards to the game of basketball, not just the rules, (I saw a post about that earlier) Jay Bilas is the only anouncer used by CBS who is tollerable

My mother, who is a hs coach, asks while watching Villanova UNC, is there an anti ACC sentiment with some officials?

In the first half when Ewing picked off the alley opp and the wistle was blown, why was it blown, what was the call?

Love's foul on Paul Davis, where was the contact?

The play where the shot clock was winding down and Ewing tipped the pass out of bounds, how could they even have considered that Ewing had full possession of the ball, thus warranting the the shot clock to be restarted? I know it didn't happen, but how could it even be talked about on the floor, I expect that crap from Packer, but not on the floor.

Who saw at like 11 pm the night of the tournament draw, who saw Bob Knight say on ESPN that the out come of many cames is deteremined by the refs (he was asked the 3 most important things for winning the tournament and number 2 was officiating). Anyways, do you guys believe this to be true? That officiating makes that big of a difference?

Is officiating as regional as we perceive it to be?

I saw a thread about pay, My cousin plays in Northern Virgina little kids select leauge where the officials ref like 6 games in a row on a saturday afternoon and are horrible and don't have a badge patch thingy, how much do those refs get payed?

About a month ago there was a Illinios Iowa game, if anybody saw it, that I have on tape, at about 9 minutes left in the first half, Greg Brunner got a long rebound at about the short corner, was punched, walked, pushed out of bounds, lost the ball, was tackled, got the ball back by shoving somebody and elbowing somebody, was elbowed, double dribbled, went up, was fouled, got the rebound, walked, 1 power/ crab dribble, shoved, walked, reverse lay up on the other side of the rim and was fouled, the wistle blew after all of this and the call was a walk. Now if anybody saw that game and knows that play, I'd like an officials point of view on it.

All the questions I can think of for now.

Thanks a bunch!

Joe Gilmore

Dan_ref · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2005, 11:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Gilmore
Coach K and a few high profile coaches start working the refs as soon as the ball is tipped, does this make any difference?

Joe, honey, I suspect you're a troll but I just can't help myself. Please name the few high profile coaches besides K involved in this game?

Thanks.

Lotto · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2005, 11:28pm

Man, are you in for it.

ref18 · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2005, 11:30pm

I'd take a look at this if I were you:

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/19318

Just a warning.

BktBallRef · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2005, 11:30pm

>>>After the Duke Michigan State game, I wanted to check few things on the officiating (which was horrible, granted I'm not a ref but the few high school coaches I've talked to agree, now nor are they officials).

If you come here to bash the officials, you're going to get creamed. The officiating was not horrible, depsite what you and your flunky HS coach friends might think.

>>>Here are my questions -
Who was officiating this game? What conference was this crew from?

They aren't a "crew" and they aren't from any particular conference. They are individually assigned by the NCAA.

>>>Even with fouling at the end to stop the clock and get the ball back, how could Duke have as many team fouls as Michigan St?

Because they fouled the same amount of times.

>>>The longest 4.2 seconds of all time? Another thread already answered this so thanks.

The clock wasn't properly started.

>>>The magic in and out put back by Williams? Another thread already answered that so thanks.

I bet you thought the call was horrible, didn't you?

>>>The make up call at the other end?

There was no makeup call.

>>>Coach K and a few high profile coaches start working the refs as soon as the ball is tipped, does this make any difference?

No.

>>>Williams' 5th foul, the one where his arms were at his sides?

What about it? He jumped forward.

>>>Billy Packer as is the majority of the CBS cast is clueless in all regards to the game of basketball, not just the rules, (I saw a post about that earlier) Jay Bilas is the only anouncer used by CBS who is tollerable.

No, Im afraid you're wrong there. He's fairly clueless too.

>>>My mother, who is a hs coach, asks while watching Villanova UNC, is there an anti ACC sentiment with some officials?

No. But that's a typical coach response.

>>>In the first half when Ewing picked off the alley opp and the wistle was blown, why was it blown, what was the call?

I don't recall the play.

>>>Love's foul on Paul Davis, where was the contact?

There was contact on the arm.

>>>The play where the shot clock was winding down and Ewing tipped the pass out of bounds, how could they even have considered that Ewing had full possession of the ball, thus warranting the the shot clock to be restarted? I know it didn't happen, but how could it even be talked about on the floor, I expect that crap from Packer, but not on the floor.

Who says that they did? Oh, Packer. Yeah right.

I'm sorry. That's all I can stand for one night.

JRutledge · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2005, 11:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Gilmore
Here are my questions -
Who was officiating this game? What conference was this crew from?

I did not catch the name of the officials so I do not know for sure. Officials at this level work multiple conference. It is not completely unusual for a single official to work games in multiple conferences (Big Ten, Conference USA, Horizon, Big 12 and ACC).

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Gilmore
Coach K and a few high profile coaches start working the refs as soon as the ball is tipped, does this make any difference?

They are all pretty high profile at this point of the game. Tom Izzo has won a national championship as well.

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Gilmore
Williams' 5th foul, the one where his arms were at his sides?

He cannot violate his vertical space. It does not matter where his arms were.

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Gilmore
My mother, who is a hs coach, asks while watching Villanova UNC, is there an anti ACC sentiment with some officials?

Yes, they all hate the ACC. How in the world do they win all those NC and get to the Final Four all the time?

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Gilmore
In the first half when Ewing picked off the alley opp and the wistle was blown, why was it blown, what was the call?

Some of us have a life, we have no idea.

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Gilmore
Is officiating as regional as we perceive it to be?

There are some mechanical difference between some conferences. But these are so minor most fans have no idea it would be a difference.

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Gilmore
I saw a thread about pay, My cousin plays in Northern Virgina little kids select leauge where the officials ref like 6 games in a row on a saturday afternoon and are horrible and don't have a badge patch thingy, how much do those refs get payed?

Read the site, that information is all over the place.

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Gilmore
About a month ago there was a Illinios Iowa game, if anybody saw it, that I have on tape, at about 9 minutes left in the first half, Greg Brunner got a long rebound at about the short corner, was punched, walked, pushed out of bounds, lost the ball, was tackled, got the ball back by shoving somebody and elbowing somebody, was elbowed, double dribbled, went up, was fouled, got the rebound, walked, 1 power/ crab dribble, shoved, walked, reverse lay up on the other side of the rim and was fouled, the wistle blew after all of this and the call was a walk. Now if anybody saw that game and knows that play, I'd like an officials point of view on it.

Who knows? We work games too.

Peace

TriggerMN · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 26, 2005, 01:07am

In the first half, Daniel Ewing did not pick off the alley-oop. He tipped it, and after it hit his hand, it hit the shot clock, which is by rule out of bounds. That's why the whistle blew, and why Michigan State got the ball back.

Joe Gilmore · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 26, 2005, 01:45am

Wow I had know idea that I'd get this many answers this quick, nor did I expect to get blasted so.

Anyways, the walk at the end of the Villanova UNC game, I didn't get a good look at it, was it a walk, should it have been called?

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
[/B]

Joe, honey, I suspect you're a troll but I just can't help myself. Please name the few high profile coaches besides K involved in this game?

Thanks. [/B][/QUOTE]

In that game? well Izzo I don't know any of the Michigan St assistants off the top of my head, but Duke Johny Dawkins and WoJo are both high profile assistants at Duke.
Involved in the game of basketball, well Gary Williams, Bob Knight, Summit, Vivian Stringer, Patino, Billy Donovan, Joe McCall (DC area HS), Joey Wootten, all of them always seem to be going after the refs. Those are the types of people I was asking about.

Rutledge - thanks for clearing up Williams' 5th, still even knowing its a foul it still seems so .... ticky tacky, what I mean is like do you (plural) officiate the same way for the first 5 minutes as you do for the last 5 minutes? And the conference to conference differences are noticed by the average fan, I just wanted to know if it was real or imagined.

Trigger - thanks for clearing up the blocked lob play.

BktballRef - thanks for clearing up how the offcials are chosen as I did not know that. but what conferences were the individual officals from?

ref18 thanks for the warning, I just read that thing just now and chuckled.

I've learned a fair amount from this forum, thank you for that.

jbduke · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 26, 2005, 01:59am

Joe,

I hope that in addition to all of the things you enumerated, that you have also learned that you don't have the first clue about how to critique officials. I'm probably the only guy here who was rooting FOR somebody in the MSU-Duke game, rather than simply AGAINST someone I already dislike or picked against in a bracket. My team lost, so I'm going to be about the last guy to give credit on this game where it is undue. Guess what? It was a well-officiated game.

As to anti-ACC bias, tell anybody who will listen that WE DON'T CARE WHO WINS.

Mark Padgett · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 26, 2005, 02:17pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Gilmore
what I mean is like do you (plural) officiate the same way for the first 5 minutes as you do for the last 5 minutes?

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Mark Padgett · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 26, 2005, 02:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jbduke
tell anybody who will listen that WE DON'T CARE WHO WINS.

Absolutely true. The officials are the only two (or three) persons in the entire gym who don't care who wins. In fact, we don't even care if anybody wins. All we care about is that at the end of regulation time, one team has at least one point more than the other.

tjones1 · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 26, 2005, 02:43pm

Dan_ref · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 26, 2005, 04:07pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Gilmore
Wow I had know idea that I'd get this many answers this quick, nor did I expect to get blasted so.

Anyways, the walk at the end of the Villanova UNC game, I didn't get a good look at it, was it a walk, should it have been called?

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Joe, honey, I suspect you're a troll but I just can't help myself. Please name the few high profile coaches besides K involved in this game?

Thanks. [/B]

In that game? [/B][/QUOTE]

In the Duke/MSU game. You know, the one you posted about?

(This a trick question??)