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-   -   Train wreck no call UW/Pacific (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/19213-train-wreck-no-call-uw-pacific.html)

zebraman Sat Mar 19, 2005 05:54pm

I'm a Washington Husky fan but boy did the officials let the Huskies get away with a train wreck charge. Then the Pacific coach was so frustrated that he got a T. Ugly.

Tre Simmons is going to the bucket on a fast break like an out-of-control train and he just absolutely creams the Pacific defender. It looked like the lead official had got his foot caught on a camera cable or something because he kept looking down and was obviously distracted by it. The center official must have choked on his whistle because the collision was something that would have made Ray Lewis of the Baltimore Ravens proud. No call. :eek: The Pacific coach went to about midcourt and got T'd up.

The next time the Huskies had the ball, Pacific got called for a hand check out around the 28-foot line. I thought the Pacific coach was going to explode from holding in his anger. I'm thinking that Hank Nichols might have felt the same way.

Z

BktBallRef Sat Mar 19, 2005 06:11pm

Z, in the first half, #21 for Washington got the ball on the left wing, drove, walked with a spin move, and took three more steps before putting the ball up, all directly in front of the L. Did you see the play? Unbelievable!

The kid took 5 steps after he lifted his pivot! :(

zebraman Sat Mar 19, 2005 06:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Z, in the first half, #21 for Washington got the ball on the left wing, drove, walked with a spin move, and took three more steps before putting the ball up, all directly in front of the L. Did you see the play? Unbelievable!

The kid took 5 steps after he lifted his pivot! :(

Yep.

Z

BktBallRef Sat Mar 19, 2005 07:41pm

My wife asks, "Isn't that traveling?" :(

QuebecRef87 Sat Mar 19, 2005 09:16pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
My wife asks, "Isn't that traveling?" :(
Tell her: "No, this is a blind ref!" :rolleyes:

Nevadaref Mon Mar 21, 2005 02:53am

I didn't see the play, but heard it on the radio and have it on tape, so I'll watch it sometime in the next couple of days.

The radio announcer said that Donnee Gray was the Lead and he got knocked off balance by a cameraman. My buddy who saw the game told me that the C got screen out by a player who was peeling off a screen right in front of him. I asked him what the Trail was doing, and he told me "T'ing the coach." :)

Sounds like a play that got all fouled up and one that they would love to have a second crack at.

Tomegun, Perhaps you will get the opportunity to ask Mr. Gray about the play and the game in general sometime soon.

IREFU2 Mon Mar 21, 2005 09:06am

I have noticed that the PC Foul isnt called alot in College. I have seen numerous collisions and nothing was called. But of course, I am officiating from the couch! LMAO!

Mark Dexter Mon Mar 21, 2005 09:31am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref

The radio announcer said that Donnee Gray was the Lead and he got knocked off balance by a cameraman.

Donnee doesn't make mistakes. The cameraman must have knocked him way off balance. :p

Indy_Ref Mon Mar 21, 2005 09:31am

Quote:

Originally posted by IREFU2
I have noticed that the PC Foul isnt called alot in College. I have seen numerous collisions and nothing was called. But of course, I am officiating from the couch! LMAO!
I'd have to agree...from my couch as well! There seems to be a lot of no-called train wrecks. I'm not sure what these guys are looking at!?!? Is calling a PC in college unpopular? Kids work hard on defense...they should be rewarded with a call...and not a bloody nose or another bruise!!

IREFU2 Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:02am

Well, I am doing my best to try and referee the defense. This is my goal this year in AAU and Rec Ball. Our board stressed in the last meeting that if a crash happens, someone has to come up with something.

Almost Always Right Mon Mar 21, 2005 01:21pm

Tough
 
The L closed down and stepped back and at the same time stepped into a couple fo cameras by the basket base.
The C, who had a good look at this play all the way from 1/2 court, got blocked out by the primary defender who jumped off of the play and just took a couple of steps to the baseline and right in the way.
We try to pre-game(regardless of level) that the lead should take a secondary defender coming across the lane. As I said though, the L got tangled up in the cameras.
The bad thing about it was that the UOP coach was absolutely correct in his argument and the T was absolutely correct with the "T".
I know they couldn't have had a lot of fun in that post-game video session.
AAR

Nevadaref Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by IREFU2
Our board stressed in the last meeting that if a crash happens, someone has to come up with something.
I don't like this sentence. It sounds too much like the directive that the NCAA women's assigners were giving a couple of years ago.

The problem is that there is a place for incidental contact in the game, which can sometimes be severe. Of course, block/charge situations may not be the appropriate place for the application of that rule. The official must have good judgment of when calls need to be made and what contact should be allowed.

The above quote makes it sound like there must be a whistle and a foul called whenever two players collide. I don't believe that is right according to the rules, and I hope that people wouldn't officiate that way.


zebraman Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:35am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:

Originally posted by IREFU2
Our board stressed in the last meeting that if a crash happens, someone has to come up with something.
I don't like this sentence. It sounds too much like the directive that the NCAA women's assigners were giving a couple of years ago.

The problem is that there is a place for incidental contact in the game, which can sometimes be severe. Of course, block/charge situations may not be the appropriate place for the application of that rule. The official must have good judgment of when calls need to be made and what contact should be allowed.

The above quote makes it sound like there must be a whistle and a foul called whenever two players collide. I don't believe that is right according to the rules, and I hope that people wouldn't officiate that way.


In the state of Washington, a similar directive was given to all high school officials from our WIAA executive director. However, it applied specifically to block/charge situations. Too many officials were doing the old "no call" on a B/C when they weren't 100% sure if it was a block or a charge. There was a lot of mumbling after that directive came down, but it has REALLY helped the game at the HS level here in Washington IMHO.

It is forcing officials to have a call when there are collisions at the hoop. At first, I saw a lot of younger officials blowing their whistles and guessing (which IMHO was better than no whistle at all with bodies on the floor). After a while, officials started recognizing when a collision was going to occur and they knew that a decision needed to be made and the calls improved a lot. It has made for a lot cleaner, safer game and discourages offensive players from making out-of-control drives to the hoop.

To be quite honest, most coaches seem to prefer a wrong call in that situation than officials just watching bodies hit the ground with no whistle.

Z

IREFU2 Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:40am

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:

Originally posted by IREFU2
Our board stressed in the last meeting that if a crash happens, someone has to come up with something.
I don't like this sentence. It sounds too much like the directive that the NCAA women's assigners were giving a couple of years ago.

The problem is that there is a place for incidental contact in the game, which can sometimes be severe. Of course, block/charge situations may not be the appropriate place for the application of that rule. The official must have good judgment of when calls need to be made and what contact should be allowed.

The above quote makes it sound like there must be a whistle and a foul called whenever two players collide. I don't believe that is right according to the rules, and I hope that people wouldn't officiate that way.


In the state of Washington, a similar directive was given to all high school officials from our WIAA executive director. However, it applied specifically to block/charge situations. Too many officials were doing the old "no call" on a B/C when they weren't 100% sure if it was a block or a charge. There was a lot of mumbling after that directive came down, but it has REALLY helped the game at the HS level here in Washington IMHO.

It is forcing officials to have a call when there are collisions at the hoop. At first, I saw a lot of younger officials blowing their whistles and guessing (which IMHO was better than no whistle at all with bodies on the floor). After a while, officials started recognizing when a collision was going to occur and they knew that a decision needed to be made and the calls improved a lot. It has made for a lot cleaner, safer game and discourages offensive players from making out-of-control drives to the hoop.

To be quite honest, most coaches seem to prefer a wrong call in that situation than officials just watching bodies hit the ground with no whistle.

Z

When we say crash, we are assuming that there is either a block or charge. No incidental contact. This is an area we as officials need to clean up. Refereeing the defense in most case will in a lot of cases dictate what the call should be.

Nevadaref Tue Mar 22, 2005 01:20am

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:

Originally posted by IREFU2
Our board stressed in the last meeting that if a crash happens, someone has to come up with something.
I don't like this sentence. It sounds too much like the directive that the NCAA women's assigners were giving a couple of years ago.

The problem is that there is a place for incidental contact in the game, which can sometimes be severe. Of course, block/charge situations may not be the appropriate place for the application of that rule. The official must have good judgment of when calls need to be made and what contact should be allowed.

The above quote makes it sound like there must be a whistle and a foul called whenever two players collide. I don't believe that is right according to the rules, and I hope that people wouldn't officiate that way.


In the state of Washington, a similar directive was given to all high school officials from our WIAA executive director. However, it applied specifically to block/charge situations. Too many officials were doing the old "no call" on a B/C when they weren't 100% sure if it was a block or a charge. There was a lot of mumbling after that directive came down, but it has REALLY helped the game at the HS level here in Washington IMHO.

It is forcing officials to have a call when there are collisions at the hoop. At first, I saw a lot of younger officials blowing their whistles and guessing (which IMHO was better than no whistle at all with bodies on the floor). After a while, officials started recognizing when a collision was going to occur and they knew that a decision needed to be made and the calls improved a lot. It has made for a lot cleaner, safer game and discourages offensive players from making out-of-control drives to the hoop.

To be quite honest, most coaches seem to prefer a wrong call in that situation than officials just watching bodies hit the ground with no whistle.

Z

Z,
I seem to recall you posting this last year and I voiced my concerns about it then too. I actually recall posting something about a team I had from OR or WA at a girls tournament during the summer remarking to me how much more physical the girls game was here in Nevada than up there.
I'm glad that it seems to be working out for your state. I seriously doubt that people would be happy with it here in cowboy country. :)


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