no "help" allowed
 

I'm the coach of a 5th and 6th grade girls team. Our league has a "no double team" rule. Defense must play man to man within six feet. I ran an isolation play that put all my team in the two bottom corners and ran the dribbler up the middle to the basket. When the dribbler beat her defender near the top of the key, another defender left her man in the corner to guard the dribbler on the low side with the original defender trailing to guard on the high side.

I called this a double team, they (including the only ref) called it a "switching defense".

Who's right?

FORGOT TO ADD THAT THERE IS NO "HELP" ALLOWED. EXAMPLE: CAN'T SEND HELP TO GUARD POST PLAYERS IN THE KEY.

[Edited by teamball on Mar 13th, 2005 at 04:57 PM]

I'd call this help defence.

When I ref games that have this totally stupid and moronic rule, if the defender gets beat, I allow for more than one other defending player to help, as long as within 5 seconds they realize that more than one defender helps and the extra defenders go back to their man.

The ref.

You haven't bench coaching long, have you? :)

That's not a double team. A double team is when two defenders are guarding one opponent simultaneously.

Is the other team just supposed to let your girl waltz in and score because she beat one defender? What is she gets by her in the backcourt? Is the defense just suppose to let her go in for an uncontested layup?

Sorry but that makes no sense whatsoever.

Re: no
 

Not only is it not a double team, but your "Isolation" play is just "not right". The reason for the league rules of person-to-person is to teach the kids skills. You running your "isolation" play isn't teaching teamwork. It's telling them that one player is good and the others should just take up space. Focus on teaching them solid skills and not on winning the game. They'll appreciate it more.

Mregor

These dumb rules.
 

If you teach players how to dribble, pass and shoot the ball properly, you will not need any of these stupid rules. This is one of the reasons I hate working these games. There are so many of these rules that just make no sense. When I was a kid we did not play under these dumb rules. If you teach fundamentals it is not going to matter whether a kid is double teamed, they will know what to do with the ball or when to give it up.

Peace

What I find most amusing is that your moniker is "teamball," yet you have taught your "team" a play where everyone except the ball handler is to stay as far away from play as possible, so you can exploit a one-on-one matchup.

This is probably one of those new and improved modern leagues where kids can get out and run around on the court, there is no winners and no losers. All the parents cheer for both teams and the coaches, except Teamball, wear shorts with black socks and white tennis shoes.

Re: These dumb rules.
 

I worked a tourny with some similar rules to what Teamball described. No full court defense except for under 1 minute in each half, no zone defense, etc.

Figuring out when a rebound is under control of one team and getting their opponents to clear the backcourt is not what I want to be watching for all day. However, that is easier than deciding if a team is playing proper defense in the midst of all the loose balls, fumbled dribbles, slow passes, and disorganized offenses.

I agree. Dumb rules to worry about. I understand some of the reasons for these rules, but for the most part wish they were not there.

I just finished working a number of dates for a league that uses similar rules, Teamball. My suggestion would be to get a league person, such as the site supervisor, or the league president, to specifically spell out the plays you describe, and what's legal and what's not. In the league I worked, they had a special exception for an isolation play, where the defense could step in and "help" if the isolated player got past her defense. Most of these kinds of leagues have their own agreements and discussions about rules and we here aren't going to be able to give you the kind of yes or no that you want. You'll have to ask someone in your own organization.

By the way, I disagree somewhat with some of the others that have posted here about not likingthese rules. I can see the advantage in having this kind of league for younger, less experienced players. It IS an adjustment for the refs, since they aren't used to keeping track of the defense and distribution, but I think there's value in the way the girls have to focus on fewer things, and work more on the fundamentals. It seems to only take about one season for them to be ready to move up to "full floor" ball. At least, that's the way it seems to work around here.

I ref in a YMCA League that has this Rule. First, I think it is helpful in the 7-8 Grade Level and below. It gives young kids a chance to play before Coaches turn the Game into hockey by running trapping presses.

The downside is that Coaches harp that anytime a kid turns it over..."He was double-teamed"! The Coaches start screaming.....then the kids pick it up and the whole game degenerates into finger pointing.

The Rule is meant to apply to a strong kid leaving his man and overtly trapping a weaker player who is already defended. I explain to Coaches that it should not interfere with good Team Defense, i.e., sagging off weakside offensive players.

When the Y adopted this Rule years ago, there were 5 Exceptions on the Double-Team Rule:

1. Fast break
2. Offensive rebound
3. Loose ball
4. Defensive switch
5. Offensive player dribbles into area of Second Defensive Player. And Second Defender swips he ball. (Happens most often.)

I never call it unless it an overt Double-team Trap. (I take a lot of HEAT, too.) If Coaches try clear-outs.....I let the defenders sag all they want to. To do otherwise, violates good basketball.

Nothing's perfect.

My kids played in a league like this from K-3rd. Each player had a wristband of a different color with a matching opponent. It was always fun watching the coaches switching wristbands to get better matchups. Like it mattered who won a 1st grade game.

No score keeping or standings just playing. Same backcourt rules. They did allow double teams in the paint.

Kids learned alot. It made a big difference when they started in 4th grade school leagues.

Our 4-5th grade teams have several rules like no backcourt pressure on dead balls (4th grade), live ball at all time is allowed.
No press until the fourth quarter in 5th grade. None at all in 4th.
They have playing time rules also - keeps coaches who just want to win at all costs honest.

Are you kidding? If they don't win those first grade games, the D1 scholarship just flies out the window! smilie