UWM vs. Detroit-Traveling?

[ByTheBook]

I was watching UWM play Detroit last night and thought I had witnessed an obvious traveling violation. We had recorded the game so we went back and watched it again and found that a friend thought otherwise. Here is the play.

Detroit player brings the ball up the court dribbling the ball and is currently walking the ball. As he nears and crosses half court he lets the ball bounce alongside him and with both hands calls out a play, after he calls out a play he does what can only be described as a sequence of hops(show boating). After this he returns to dribbling the ball and moves tries to drive past the defender.

Now I thought it was a traveling violation because he took at least six steps in the sequence of hops after dribbling and begins dribbling again. I am very confused as to how this could be anything other than a travel.

[Jurassic Referee]

You can't travel while dribbling. You can't travel when the ball is loose or being fumbled. You can't travel unless you are actually holding the ball.

Dem's da rules.

[ByTheBook]

Does this mean the actions taken by the player were legal?
Is there no limit to the number of steps you can take in between dribbles?

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by ByTheBook
I was watching UWM play Detroit last night and thought I had witnessed an obvious traveling violation. We had recorded the game so we went back and watched it again and found that a friend thought otherwise. Here is the play.

Detroit player brings the ball up the court dribbling the ball and is currently walking the ball. As he nears and crosses half court he lets the ball bounce alongside him and with both hands calls out a play, after he calls out a play he does what can only be described as a sequence of hops(show boating). After this he returns to dribbling the ball and moves tries to drive past the defender.

Now I thought it was a traveling violation because he took at least six steps in the sequence of hops after dribbling and begins dribbling again. I am very confused as to how this could be anything other than a travel.

Remember, a travel violation is essentially only: 1)lifting a pivot foot before starting a dribble, or 2)replacing a pivot foot before releasing the ball on a pass or shot. Now there are other conditions as to how a pivot foot is established, but the main similarity in all of them is the player must first be holding the ball. In your description, it sounds like the ball is bouncing next to the player, and he is not holding it. So, in this case, no violation. (Unless of course he's not Irish and he tries to dance a jig, but that's another type of violation entirely!)

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ByTheBook
Does this mean the actions taken by the player were legal?
Is there no limit to the number of steps you can take in between dribbles?

Perefectly legal and there's no limit.

BTW, I thought this was a GREAT game to watch. Best part: with 4 seconds left the UWM player drove the base line and was held (mugged) by the Detroit player. He played through that, got by the defender and was able to put up a shot & was fouled from behind by the same player, sending the UWM player to the line to win it. The announcers were amazed a foul was called, saying they couldn't see any real contact on the play.

Unbelievable.

I also saw the Oakland/ORU game before that one, another great game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ByTheBook
Does this mean the actions taken by the player were legal?
Is there no limit to the number of steps you can take in between dribbles?

Yup, it was legal and there's no limit to the number of steps the dribbler can take between dribbles.

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Perefectly legal and there's no limit.

BTW, I thought this was a GREAT game to watch. Best part: with 4 seconds left the UWM player drove the base line and was held (mugged) by the Detroit player. He played through that, got by the defender and was able to put up a shot & was fouled from behind by the same player, sending the UWM player to the line to win it. The announcers were amazed a foul was called, saying they couldn't see any real contact on the play.

Unbelievable.

I also saw the Oakland/ORU game before that one, another great game.

I saw parts of both games (I didn't see the specific play ByTheBook saw), but they were both pretty good. All the teams in those conferences have something to play for - a spot in the Big Dance. I think this time of year is even better than college football bowl season.

[drothamel]

I saw the play Dan mentioned with 4 seconds left. I couldn't believe how patient the ref was with his whistle. It was quite impressive. Thought the kid was going to miss both FT's though. Congrats to UWM and all of their alum.

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by drothamel
I saw the play Dan mentioned with 4 seconds left. I couldn't believe how patient the ref was with his whistle. It was quite impressive. Thought the kid was going to miss both FT's though. Congrats to UWM and all of their alum.

Patient whistle indeed. The previous 3 minutes there were no whistles for all the illegal contact which certainly could have been called; made for a great ending but then the one that does get called makes it at 4 seconds? I'll recuse myself from further comment but I think the call should have been passed on, let OT decide it.

[Lotto]

Originally posted by ByTheBook
Detroit player brings the ball up the court dribbling the ball and is currently walking the ball. As he nears and crosses half court he lets the ball bounce alongside him and with both hands calls out a play, after he calls out a play he does what can only be described as a sequence of hops(show boating). After this he returns to dribbling the ball and moves tries to drive past the defender.

Now I thought it was a traveling violation because he took at least six steps in the sequence of hops after dribbling and begins dribbling again. I am very confused as to how this could be anything other than a travel.

When I read this, it sounds to me as though the player never finished his dribble. A dribble ends only when the dribbler catches or carries/palms the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands, when the dribbler touches the ball with both hands simultaneously, when an opponent bats the ball, or the ball becomes dead. (NCAA rules; NFHS rules may differ.) Since none of these things happened, the player was dribbling the whole time, even though the ball bounced several times without anyone touching it. You cannoy travel while dribbling, so no travel. Also no double dribble, since the original dribble never ended.

I noticed while looking up the definition that a player while dribbling touching the ball with both hands, but not simultaneously, in between bounces during a dribble, does not seem to end the dribble. (Imagine: bounce, touch with left hand, touch with right hand, bounce.) Can anyone find a reference that says that this is illeagal under NCAA rules?