Hey all...first time I've ever posted on here so go easy.

Doing AAU games last night, 1st of 4 middle school level. Smooth game, absolutely no problems. Get to under 30 seconds in the 4th, Team A down 1. Team B has possession and running out the clock, Team A Coach is now yelling from the bench "Foul! Foul! Foul!." I'm the lead table side, ball rotates down into my corner. A24 comes to B1 and two hand shoves B1 in the back, no play on the ball. I immediately signal an intentional...go to the table and signal again, both coaches from Team A go crazy..."how can that be an intentional foul" and what not. Coach does not even let me explain the call, so after about him screaming for about 10 seconds, I stop sign him. He continues, I put the whistle in my mouth and he gets the hint to shut up.

After the FTs for the foul, Coach A calls time out. As I go to administer the throw in underneath, A31, before I even administer the throw in, is holding B2 by the jersey..and when I say holding, I mean he's got a fist full of jersey and not hiding it..basically his arm is fully extended grabbing the jersey. I walk up to him, tell him to let go of the jersey, and then administer the throw in. As soon as I hand the ball to the inbounder, B2 breaks for the ball and A31, again fully extended, grabs B2 by the back numbers and pulls him backwards. I immediately come up with another intentional. Team A Coaches go completely ballistic on this one, and the head coach meets me about halfway to the table on the floor..he got out "What the HE**" WHACK! Here comes the asst. behind him and he gets nose to nose with me before I even know what happens..so I pin him. Now mind you, I haven't even gotten to the table yet. I tell them both to get back to the bench..they refuse and the asst. is still nose to nose. I gave him about 5 more seconds and one more "get back to the bench." I go to walk away and the asst. follows me..enough is enough and I toss him. But I immediately realized that now the head coach is done too (1 direct, plus 2 indirects)..no more coaches, game over. BTW, head coach followed the asst when I tossed the asst., and either one of them would have warranted the ejection.

As my partner and I go to where we have our bags (AAU games..no locker rooms), the asst. continues to berate me. Calling me a punk a$$ kid who doesn't know the rules because an intentional foul is only when there is intent to hurt and that the penalty for an intentional foul is not 2 shots and the ball, but should have been a 1-on-1 instead, I cost his team the game, yada yada yada. I just sat on the bleachers calm as can be and fought a fool with silence.

Of course I didn't want to end the game like that, especially in such a close and well-played game. Anyone see anything that I could have done differently? Sorry so long guys..like I said...1st post! Oh and finally..I still haven't gotten to the table to report the original intentional.

Don't you just love AAU ball. That makes for a long day when that's the first game on the court. Just a couple of things I do that you might think about. Could you have T'd up a coach the first time they complained? This might have set the tone for the game a little earlier and gotten rid of some of the ugliness. With most of those coaches, the more leash you give them, the more they are going to want to take. The second thing is a small one, but you should have reported the fouls in the order that they occured, so if you did get to report the T's, the intentional should have been reported first. Lastly, where was game mangagement and your partner during this ugliness?

WOW!
 

Sorry you had to endure that...but get used to it with some of these AAU coaches. Whack early...and whack often...if they aren't going to listen to you!

I might have heaved the head coach the minute he came out onto the court after the second intentional foul. After I did this, I would have looked at the assistant and told him to not even think about it or the game would be over. I would have gotten game management and told them to escort the head coach out...and when he returned, could he please sit behind this particular team's bench for the remainder of the game.

Hey monfanz, not a bad bit of work for a "punk a$$ kid"!

:)

Nice Job. You showed more restraint than I ever would! If I was going to fault you for anything based on your description it would be for having too much restraint. Hang in there. I particularly like the comment of Fighting a Fool with silence. A tactic I need to work on but, dang that Irish Temper always gets in the way :D

I agree! From the description your calls were correct and you handled yourself professionally.

To reinforce what Junker & Indy said, at this & other levels of rec ball, I keep coaches on a very short leash right from the beginning. Be fair but firm - warn at the first transgression, but penalize immediately if they again step over the line. Catch it early and you greatly minimize the potential for problems later in the game.

Hopefully you followed up with a written report to your assignor or whoever runs the league of both coaches behavior, and in particular the comments of the a$$istant....people with that attitude & obvious lack of knowledge of the game have no business coaching youth sports.

Sounds like you did what you could given your situation. Nice whacking. Good 1st post also.

Call me whacky but my sentiments exactly - especially in AAU ball.....whack early, set the bar low and keep on whacking. Encourage all your fellow refs to do the same and by the second round of the tourney you will be pleasantly surprised at how smooth things will become. Many coaches at this level simply do not know the rules and need to be disciplined. Some coaches will respond positively and become better at what they do because you had them toe the line.

Others, well let's just say that some guys don't have the ability to grasp the concepts of the game and need to be whacked so often that they will get fired, quit, or never make it to halftime in any game the do attempt to coach.

Thanks for the reinforcement...I went home last night feeling like crap because I didn't let the kids decide the game. As far as a short leash, I normally have one, especially in non-varsity games. But like I said before, up until the 1st intentional foul, there was not a problem from anyone! The explosions were completely unexpected.

Junker, as far as reporting the fouls in proper order..I still haven't had the chance to report anything. Like I said, the Ts happened before I could even get to the table to report the intentional..I never got to the table. When the ejection and subsequent forfeiture happened, my partner and I just got off the court.

That's what I kind of figured. I was just doing a little nit picking to help you out in the future. It sounds like you did a nice job with a tough situation. Iagree with everyone that in rec ball, set sportsmanship expectations early. When I'm working a court for a long time, as you were, I often go looking for a T in the first game (something I don't do during the "regular" season). Usually other coaches and players are there watching so they will know that sportsmanship will be enforced. A short pregame with the coaches also helps. Go to go have a parent-teacher conference.

The problem with Rec, adult and AAU is that there is no accountability. Some tournaments do penalize Coaches for Tees etc. It mignt not have done any good but perhaps if your partner played the role of "good cop" you may have gotten the situation under control. Under the circumstances that you described it sound like you had no choice but to do what you did. I've never given out a Tee all of my Tees have been earned by the "perps".

Keep in Mind
 

Just remember that as much as officials want to let the players decide the game, sometimes coaches don't allow that to happen.

Do not think for one minute that it was you that did not let the players decide the game. It was the coaches in this case that did not let, or should I say decided the game for his players.

Great Job if all was as you explain!!!!

Nice job, you did very well. When I first read the title of this thread, I thought someone else got cake after their game. :D I was getting a little jealous before I read the thread! ;)

Quote:
The asst. continues to berate me. Calling me a punk a$$ kid who doesn't know the rules.

Who commited intentional fouls. The players you called them on. Who acted mature? You did. Who knew the rules? You did. Who has a voice? You do. Who doesn't have a voice? Assistant coach. Who was an idiot? Both coaches. Who acted like punks? Both coaches. Who has had these problems with AAU ball? Everybody who has ever officiated it! You did a good job and followed a univeral law that all of us would do well to follow -- never argue with an idiot! Good poise on your part. Be proud of yourself

[Edited by refnrev on Mar 10th, 2005 at 12:19 PM]

Just for future reference, what I think Junker was referring to is that the ejection/disqualification/forfeit doesn't occur until the fouls are officially reported, so you need to do that first, then deal with the consequences.

20/20 hindsight is wonderful, but this is probably how I would have handled it - others may disagree:
1. Don't go immediately to the table - it's too close to the benches & invited further discourse. I'd have told the coaches to go back to their bench, then while the smoke was clearing, waved my partner over to the jump circle area & briefly explained to him what you have.

2. Take a step or two towards the table, and from that position on the court report fouls in the order they occurred as follows:
Intentional foul on A31
Technical foul on A's HC
Technical foul on A's AC
2nd technical foul on A's AC

3. Now you go to the division line opposite the table and let your partner administer the penalties. You know they're pi$$ed at you, but if they're stupid enough to "shoot the messenger", it just makes them look worse.

4.Partner first informs A's HC that his AC is ejected for the 2 direct T's, then informs HC he is also ejected because of his one direct T plus the two indirects as result of AC's actions. Partner then asks A's HC if he has another qualified assistant on the bench. If not, he's told the game is forfeit. Then B's HC is informed of the forfeit.

5. The official book is then informed of the forfeit. Since B was ahead, the score remains as is - if A had been ahead, the final score would be recorded as 2-0 in favor of B. Because of the forfeit, no free throws are administered. Partner needs to make sure that everything is recorded in the book.

Forfeit or not, their disqualification requires that both coaches immediately leave the venue of the competition - if they don't, immediately notify game management and ask that security escort them from the building.

Handling non-school games...
 

When I do AAU, PAL, CYO etc...(non-school games), I try to avoid ejecting all the coaches so there is someone left and the team does not have to forfeit. If everyone has to be ejected, then do so, but I find it helpful to tell the coach that if everyone is ejected this game is forfeited. 99% of the time the coach will bite his lip. Saying something like "Coach, try to control yourself because if you are ejected and no one is left to coach, this game will be forfeited." If it is close, it usually always works...

Now, if it is a blowout -- ejecting him may be your best option :)

Joe

The only things you forgot to do were stare at their pants and puke on their shoes.

Works every time.

You can take a small amount of comfort here. When the game gets ugly, no matter what happened, most officials are sorry to see it end this way. We have, I think, a tendency in this situation to second guess ourselves about some part of the game, was this a bad call, was this call necessary, etc. When this coach continues the tirade you describe above, you are totally vindicated. This is no longer a gray area, since he is spouting his ignorance of the rules for everyone to hear. You did what you had to do, congratulations. The challenge now is if you have this team again, to start fresh and put the past behind you, and hopefully the coaches will do the same. (many don't) Good job and good luck.

Wrong. The coaches didn't let the kids decide the game. You just announced their decision to all involved.

monfanz,
<B><font color = red size = 3> Attaboy!</font></B>
Good post.
Good job.
mick

I just saw Ed Hightower call an intentional foul in the Northwestern-Michigan game. NW was up one point at the time with 7 seconds left. Did it decide the game...probably, but it was the RIGHT call. That is all you can do. Good job.

:p (It was chocolate cake with Neopolitan ice cream!!!)

monfanz - I know the last thing you want to do is end a game on bad note. But with experience you'll find there are things that are under your control, and things that aren't. There are also the situations that you handled correctly, and the things you didn't but wished you could've done differently. In this case, it sounds like you handled it professionally, which is a big, correct first step. I have to agree with TimTaylor that the administration could've been handled better; there's a chance that a couple of things might have been avoided. That's something you will learn over time. Usually I've seen things happen the other way - a newer official will get the admin. stuff right, but also go toe-to-toe with coaches, yell back, tell them to shut up, etc., and those officials tend to end up with more problems in the end. So even though the game wasn't one of those "smooth, both teams played hard, you nailed every call, both teams give you high-fives at the end" type games that make you feel good, you will eventually learn to almost feel as good about the ones like this where you kept your cool and handled things correctly.

Monfanz, I would like to play devil's advocate here. Since it has been assumed that you are a younger official (maybe because you have a low post count) I would like to know how long you've been officiating.

I'm not exactly the guy to talk to about end-of-game situations lately :rolleyes: but it sounds to me like you did pretty much what you had to do. If the adults don't want to be adults, you can't make them.

Tough night. Sounds like you handled it well.

Tomegun,

I just turned 22 and just completed my 4th year of being patched. This is the first time I have even come close to dealing with something of this magnitude, despite the fact that I had a full varsity schedule plus 2 district playoff games this year (1st ejection of a coach ever...only other ejection I have had was for a fight).

TimTaylor,

To respond to your post about the procedure, I agree that that part could have been handled a little bit smoother. However, in the situation I was in, things got hostile very very quickly and once I issued the 3rd technical, my only concern was getting off of the court. Further, my partner was 18, 1st year patched, and I definitely was not about to throw him to the wolves so to speak. This was actually the reason why after the 1st intentional foul, since the ball was being inbounded table-side, I administered the throw-in rather than being opposite the table (2-man game) just to keep him away from the irate coaches. I guess that's what I get for trying to protect my partner :(

[Edited by monfanz on Mar 11th, 2005 at 03:02 PM]

monfanz,
I am impressed with your savoire faire.
Need a partner? ;)
mick

Monfanz, it sounds to me like you did a good job. There was something about your original post that made me think you were new to this board and not really new as an official. Good job.

Good preventative officating here. You told B to let go of A's jersey, unfortunately he didn't listen apparently.

Knucklehead coaches did that for you.

You just did your job.

Bad sitch handled as well as possible.

I seem to call my share of intentional fouls in these game ending moments when there is no play on the ball.

I had a 6th grader shoulder block a kid to the ground and the coach went nuts when I called intentional. I told him to tell his player to save it for football or professional wrestling.

Monfanz,

Great job. You have to love these coaches who don't know the rules. Being a young official myself, I have to agree that you showed great poise in 1) protecting your partner and 2) handling the situation after the game went to crap.