<b>SICA mess shows race remains divisive issue

March 6, 2005

BY CAROL SLEZAK SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST</b>




She is only one person. She cannot possibly speak for an entire school district, let alone an entire community. But how many people does she speak for? That's what I'm wondering. And, unfortunately, I think she speaks for a lot of us.



I never paid much attention to the South Inter-Conference Association before last week, when a racially charged phone recording from the home phone of a Lincoln-Way school-board member was left with the Sun-Times. Given that Lincoln-Way Central and East are two of 11 schools that are planning to leave SICA to form their own athletic conference, and given that the proposed alignment appears to segregate schools according to race and economics, the phone message was a big deal.

<b>Transcript says it all</b>



In case you missed the message when it was printed Tuesday in the Sun-Times, here it is:

"Today you can't -- you can't -- do that anymore because, you know, we're so sick of it. You know, all the Caucasian people. How much more?

"I look at all the housing that came down from the city and how they set up these beautiful town houses in Richton [Park] and in all Sauk Village. You know, they cost about $150,000 to build, and these people move in and have to pay a lousy $50 to live in them, per month, and don't even pay and ruin 'em, burn 'em out.

"And it's just a process that how many years is this going to take, to the point where give them all a free education so we can get them all off welfare and get them into jobs because it's getting to the point where I'm tired of the welfare, tired of the mentality that 'poor blackie' because let's give them a job so they can be supporting themselves and, be, make them work. You know, forget this 'I want to be a bum' type of thing.

<b>'A forever problem'</b>



"I think it's a forever problem in this country. You know, it's never going to go away in this area here. It's part of ... I watched the neighborhoods all change. The schools that used to be good, like Rich Central, Rich East and Rich South, are all failing schools. Why are they failing? Because of what's in 'em.

"One of the teachers right down the street said he couldn't wait to get the heck out from 30 years ago when he started teaching, when it was just the normal kid. I mean, it's a zoo.''

<b>Board member resigns</b>



The speaker apparently had called a Sun-Times reporter and did not hang up after reaching voice mail. Instead, she continued a conversation she was having. Caller ID indicated the call came from the home of board member Maureen Jagmin, who denied making the call but resigned from the board under pressure Thursday.

Now what? Can we simply put the speakers' words behind us? Can we attribute them to a single misguided soul and move forward? After all, the Lincoln-Way board has apologized to the Rich schools.

And the schools that want to split from SICA say their intentions are good. They simply want their sons and daughters to have the best education possible, including extracurricular activities such as sports. They think the new alignment makes sense for them.

<b>New segregation?</b>



Although the schools that want to split from SICA happen to be overwhelmingly white, they say it's not their intent to segregate. They merely want their students to be able to play sports against schools that are most similar to them. Isn't that their prerogative?

Legally, maybe not. Attorney General Lisa Madigan reportedly has her eye on the situation. But legalities aside, is such a plan morally defensible? If you thought the plan was OK before you heard about the message that was left with the Sun-Times, can you still justify feeling that way?

When I hear the term "poor blackie'' or hear a mostly black school described as a "zoo,'' I hear ignorance and a good dose of hatred, as well. Increased segregation only can lead to more of this kind of thinking. How can this plan be a good thing?

<b>Regressing, not progressing</b>



A half-century after the Supreme Court's decision in Brown v. Board of Education outlawed racial segregation in public schools, it feels like we're going backward. Our communities remain separate, and racial prejudices and stereotypes remain strong.

The woman who made that phone call said a lot of hurtful things. But at least we know how she really feels. Typically, racism is more subtle. Realignment, for instance.

If there is a lesson to be learned from the SICA 11, I'm afraid it's a negative one. Those of us who like to think of sports as the great equalizer are fooling ourselves.


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It has a lot to do with officiating. Anytime a conference is formed and they play basketball, it affects officials.

Funny I did not see you say anything about the post about the Army-Navy game (which had nothing to do with officiating).

I really do not care where the discussion goes, but the article was very interesting to me. Thought I would share.

Peace

Frankly, I don't think this is fair. I don't always agree with Jeff, but simply posting an article for review shouldn't be cause for ad hominems. Like it or not (I sorely wish it wasn't true), race affects us in many ways; subtle and blatant.

Frankly, I think it's inappropriate to start imputing motives to other posters. Far more inappropriate than making a post that's not related to officiating. Non-officiating related posts and threads happen regularly, and to pick this one to attack doesn't really sit well.
If you don't like non-officiating threads, then don't respond to them (wait til baseball season). Create your own board and filter the posts to your heart's content.

I have been here longer than 23 posts. I have been here for longer than a month. So if you do not like what is here, create your own website discussion board and you can filter the content all you want. I really do not care if you think it does not belong. You are not the boss of this site and you have not been here long enough to tell anyone what is wrong or what is right with what needs to be posted here.

Peace

You have been here a month, you have no idea what I try to talk about and what I do not try to talk about. If you do not like the content that I post or the things I talk about, do not read them. This article was posted in a major news paper in a major media market. This has been talked about amongst many officials in my area no matter what color, race or gender they are. If you do not like the content or these things being talked about, tell the media to treat these issues like they do the war, stick their head in the sand. I realize that works for your President, but it does not apply to the rest of us.

Peace

Yo, neo-con dirt-bag....lay off.

You've got a lot of nerve stirring up crap after only two dozen posts.

I personally don't give a crap if you're a long-time reader - you've contributed next to nothing. You have no right to be dumping all over one of the board's veterans.

The fact you can't comprehend how the article applies to officiating and/or basketball in general just shows how dumb you are.

If you don't agree with him, say it and move on. In fact, move away. Far away.

Uh-huh....this guy's gonna last long....

:rolleyes:

Sorry, he is not.

Peace

Oh that's brilliant.

So just because you live in the U.S., you must approve of everything. Yeah, uh-huh, I get it now. :rolleyes:

You're bangin' your head against a hell of a brick wall here, Rut....

It's snowing U.P. here.

Y'know, its a sorry thing that a school board official - or anybody - feels that way. But, the good thing is, it sounds like a lot of right thinking people stood up for what is right. There are two messages here - one really bad, and one really good. The important thing is, we need to raise both of them up.

What this country really needs is a frank dialogue about racial relations. I think if we discussed things openly, without rancor, we could clear up a lot of issues.

Having said that, while black people have certainly borne the overwhelming brunt of racism over many years, we all have to realize racism burns in all directions. For example, our girls high school team just won the state AAAA championship (next-to-highest classification). Our school is predominately white. I filmed the elite 8 game while standing next to a girl filming for the opponent, whose team was black. We talked off and on throughout the game. As we pulled away close to the end, she commented that they didn't think we would be very good because we were white. Was that racism? Nah. Basketball in our area is dominated by very good black players. But, could someone easily take it the wrong way? Sure. It happens all the time.

Please don't think I'm trying to trivialize the egregious behavior of the people in the article. Their actions are abhorrent. But, at some point, we need to learn to separate true racism from innocent comments or actions.

Everyone, let's face it. Race is still an issue in this country and the world. If you read Rut's post of the article, it references the schools' desire to compete against others more closely resembling them. In that, I conclude that the schools want to segregate themselves in order not to have to compete against majority Black schools. As we know, where there is a school competition, there is a need for officials (ie - a link to this board).

I am not sure of JRut's intent for the post, however, I feel it is a valid topic for discussion or review. For those who think the issue of race (and even gender for that matter) is not alive and well, look around and within you.

I just finished working the AA Boys' State Finals in Macon, GA this weekend, and within that, the crews for State Finals with the exception of one (an all female crew who happened to be Caucasian - and damn good officials too) was racially diversed. These games are assigned with racial balance in mind.

In conclusion, I would suggest that if the moderators of this forum deem the post worthy of not being deleted, then read and respond to those that you like and not condemn the poster. As theboys said, open dialogue on race is needed and can be a building block for understanding cultural differences.

For the record of those who may wonder my race, I'm of the Human Race.

First, as an ardent supporter of President Bush, I should say that I am thoroughly embarassed by some of the actions of someone who would use his name as a moniker. I have to agree with Snaq on this one, show some respect; even if you do disagree.

On another note, I am from VA, so I don't quite understand the situation. How are the conferences determined in IL? I mean, is it largely goegraphic, like here? I am assuming that these schools are all public schools. If that is is the case, then I would imagine that the racial make-up of the schools is determined by the surrounding population. Now, for as long has history has been able to record, people tend to live with others who are most like themselves. Is this racism? I don't think so. It is certainly prejudice, but not necessarily racism. Also, are the predominately African-American schools clamoring to keep the predominately Caucasian schools part of the conference? What are the consequences of them leaving? And since this obviously relates to officiating, how are the officials assigned to these schools? Do the schools choose the officials, or is there an association that does the assigning for them? If the schools do the assigning, I would shutter to think that they would choose their officials based on race.

I find the topic interesting because it is not something that I see where I am. Most of the schools where I am are public, and there is roughly one school per county, so the schools are pretty diverse. On top of that, the athletic districts are determined by school population. The problem that we run into here is student population issues (i.e. big schools v. little schools), not really demographic issues.

Conferences are determined by the schools and the sports they play. I do know the IHSA only recognizes conferences that have a certain number of schools involved. Of course geography is a factor, but it is not the only factor. There are many conferences that are spread out over several miles. I work for one conference where it is not totally unusual for you to travel 60 miles between schools. The HS I graduated from we had a good trip to play most of the schools in our conference. So the racial makeup is not as easily determined by the schools in a conference.

Neither. In the Chicago area conferences hire an assignor. These individuals are not hired to be associated with a group or organization. The assignor makes the determination on who works the games and I know the school might make some requests to have racially balanced officials on games especially when some of the schools playing are racially diverse.

I think what needs to be made clear, the SICA conference is a 30+ team conference. All these schools are in the Southern Suburbs of Chicago. The south suburbs tend to be a very racially diverse area. Many towns jammed next to each other. You go down one street and you can go to a wealthy area and in a couple of minutes run into an area of poverty and more crime problems. The schools that are separating are mostly schools with higher income families that live there. Maybe to a surprise to many, there are a couple of schools that have a really high African-American population in some of the schools. Most of the schools breaking away from the SICA conference are almost entirely white. The issue that this article was mainly dealing with is that there are a clump of schools that are entirely Black for the most part and they were feeling they were excluded in the new alignment. The conference claimed the new alignment had nothing to do with race, but it seemed to come out that way whether it was on purpose or not. This caused a lot of animosity and this is the reason the Illinois Attorney General was about to get involved.

I saw in the paper where this new South West Suburban Conference was asking for assignors in several sports. I guess we will see how this is going to play out in the coming months.

Peace

"I am not sure of JRut's intent for the post, however, I feel it is a valid topic for discussion or review. "

Sure, it's valid but it seems quite off-topic on this board? If he wants to discuss race relations on here that's fine, I don't have to look at the post but at least come out and admit you want to discuss the issues raised in the article. To relate this to officiating becomes a REAL stretch unless you are in the SICA conference.

In my opinion, this thread easily falls within the guidleines available in this basketball forum.

It shows policy, politics, thoughts and opinions with which many officials deal on a regular basis and with regular bias.
mick

Could someone tell us which Southwest Suburban schools are looking to re-align? It was my understanding that Joliet was one of these schools. I would be hard pressed to find any school more diverse than Joliet. It appears the black vs. white has again reared it's uneducated head and failed to remember hispanics, asian, and others.

this is my one and only post to this thread. I have waisted way too much productive time already listening to black vs. white bashing.

Please show some respect to the members of this board and exchange e-mails, phone numbers, etc....or take this to a private chat room. I agree this thread has merit as it relates to political / societal issues...but I would hate to have others be pulled into this thread and read for 20 minutes only to find a couple of posts worth reading.

I will get out of your hair now and get something productive done.

If you had been around longer than a few weeks, then you might see a lot of posts that do not directly relate to the masses. Any topic that deals with a conference and the breakdown of that conference is officiating related. What is happening in the SICA conference could happen anywhere in the country. Especially in urban areas and the many suburbs that surround them.

Peace

Were you honestly trying to start a discussion related to conference issues or posting an article that lent itself to political discussion? It didn't take long for you to expand upon your own POLITICAL views once "Bush in 2004" started ranting about you. He either hit a nerve or that's what your purpose was in the first place.

Again, I have no problem with this if your motive is truly to have a political discussion on race relations. It costs me nothing to simply ignore the thread if I want to but if you start defending your original post on the guise it was "official/conference" related, you sound disingenuous.

JRut,

Thanks for the info, that makes things a bit clearer. I also went to the sun-times website and read some of the other articles about not only the phone messge, but also the split of the conference. It seems to me that there may be more than one issue at play here. First, judging by what some of the articles said, it would appear that the 11 schools that are separating are sufficiently diverse. Quote from one article--"On Monday, 11 schools, including Lincoln-Way's two schools, said they were creating their own conference. Of the 11, seven are at least 80 percent white and two are about 52 percent white. The remaining two are less than 40 percent white." That seems pretty diverse to me. Now, that being said, I don't think that the motivation of any particular school or board was racial in general. It would appear that Maureen Jagmin definitely felt some racial animosity towards the other schools. Although, I do leave some room for the fact that her moronic comments may have motivated more by class than by race. It may just happen that the classes that she is disparaging happen to be largely minority. I have seen similar things happen around here with regard to class, although most of those involved happen to be white.

I think that the most reasonable explanation here is that you had 11 schools that were trying to act in their own best interests, whatever those may be; and you have one stupid person that has gone and mucked the whole thing up for everyone by coloring the debate with her own stupidity. It wouldn't be the first time. I beleive that one of the posters on this board has a very relevant quote in his signature line--"never argue with a stupid person, he will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience."

Also, athletic redistricting doesn't seem to be quite as weighty an issue as, say, redistricting for attendance. As much as I love Rep. Bobby Rush for being one of my fraternity brothers, I don't think that the attorney general is going to be of much help with this one.
It certainly is interesting to me, especially in that it is taking place in such a large area.

What difference to you does it make what my motives were or what they were not? I have every right to post anything that falls within the guidelines of this site and what others have posted based on all kinds of issues. I know who and what I am dealing with when I come to this site. The article was interesting to me and has been talked about long before this article was even written in the paper or online.

Let me say this for the record. If anyone had been here longer than a month, they would know what my political views are. A name does not "hit a nerve" with me. I have always thought of Bush and his administration as flawed. It is not my children dying or my friends fighting a war that is being fought based on a lie. I have made it very clear what my position politically is, so anyone that holds on to that point of view and trying to defend that administration just brings laughs to me personally.


Actually there is no real motive other than I can post articles like this based on many other things I see here. I have read in the past month things about going to greet soldiers coming home from Iraq and the Army-Navy basketball game which talked nothing about the officials or who was assigned the game. I did not read your post talking about why those were posted and questioning the motives of the people that posted those articles. If this topic makes you uncomfortable that is really your problem. I am not going to stop talking about the things that interest me and things I talk about with officials regardless of their color. I had a conversation about this issue with 3 Caucasian officials at a Baseball clinic about a week ago. They brought it up to me and 2 of the individuals lived in the region where these schools are located in the SICA conference. It is not my problem that you cannot understand why I would post this article.

Peace

drothamel,

The issue of the 11 succeeding from the SICA conference is really another issue all together. For me that is not an issue rather than a good move to work with schools that have a similar mission. Part of the problem is that there are 30+ schools in the SICA before this succession of these 11 schools. Anytime you get 30+ schools together with different economic, racial and academic issues you are going to have some disagreement. I am surprised it worked as long as it did in the first place. The 11 schools in my opinion are making a good move. It is just sad that one board member had to say the things she did. But that should not detract from the move of these 11 schools. There succession is based on what makes since for them. There are a lot of conferences in our area that have similar racial makeup.

Peace

JRut,

I agree completely. Like I said, sometimes stupid people have a way of mucking things up for everyone else.

:rolleyes:

gawd...