Travelling (pick up game)???

[ijhutch]

Hi all. New to the board, but can't seem to find a definitive resolution to a question that came up today while playing hoops at my local gym. (where's the search function here? Anyways...)

Two opposing players go up for a rebound, come down with it simultaneously. They struggle, the ball gets closer and closer to the floor, then Team A player lets go and the Team B player falls to the floor with the ball. Did the Team B player travel in the context of High School rules? NCAA rules? NBA rules? International rules?

What I have found for NCAA is:

A.R. 38. Is it traveling when a player (a) falls to the playing court while holding the ball; or
(b) gains control of the ball while on the playing court and then, because of momentum, rolls
or slides, after which the player passes or starts a dribble before getting to his or her feet?
RULING: In (a), yes, because it is virtually impossible not to move the pivot foot when
falling to the playing floor. In (b), no. The player may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a
timeout. Once the player has the ball and is no longer sliding, he or she may not roll over.
When flat on his or her back, the player may sit up without violating. When the player puts
the ball on the floor, then rises and is the first to touch the ball, it also is traveling. When a
player rises to his or her feet while holding the ball, it is traveling. When a player falls to one
knee while holding the ball, it is traveling if the pivot foot moves.

So under a), it's travelling. b) implies that it might not be, but a) is pretty clear.


But for NBA rules, it says:

Section XIV-Traveling
i. A player who falls to the floor while holding the ball, or while coming to a stop, may not make progress by sliding.

This strongly *implies* that falling to the floor with the ball is OK as long as one doesn't try to improve position by sliding around.

As for Arizona High School rules, I didn't find anything. Ditto for International rules.

Any advice would be appreciated. I guess it kind of depends on what "rules" are played in a pick up game. But I play basketball for fun and aerobic exercise. I was the Team B player, but the Team A player (a young kid with lots of talent) was pretty adamant that it was travelling and a turnover by the rules (I should have asked him which).

Thanks.

* ijhutch *

[bradfordwilkins]

High School rules, you traveled. But before you did, it seems like you had a jump ball.

But if you had possesion and went to the ground, you've traveled. If you release the ball before you hit the ground, then you're in the clear.

As far as pick-up games, they usually go under NBA rules. A self-pass would be called everytime in a pick up game. I've never seen traveling called unless there was no other choice. The old guys usually can get a way with more fouls and pushing. Yep, sounds like the NBA

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ijhutch
Hi all. ... But I play basketball for fun and aerobic exercise... * ijhutch *

Hi, hutch. Welcome to the board. For fun and aerobic exercise, you can't beat reffing. I'd like to invite you to join us! Playing is good, but reffing is the best, and it's great exercise! The camaraderie is tremendous, the pay isn't bad for a hobby, and it's cheaper exercise than going to the gym. Doing a good job in a good game is the most exhilarating (woo! spelling challenge!) thing you can do after a certain age -- which will go unspecified. I strongly recommend you give it a try!

[ijhutch]

But if you had possesion and went to the ground, you've traveled. If you release the ball before you hit the ground, then you're in the clear.

Ok, so continuing this H.S. nuance, I release the ball as I'm falling. I hit the ground, the ball is bouncing next to me (barely). At what point can I pick up the ball (if at all)? Do I have to have a pivot foot established (basically, be back on my feet)? And what can I do with it if I _can_ pick it up? Pass only or dribble too? BTW, I'm guessing that kid was 19 or 20 :-O

Thanks for the invite, rainmaker , but part of my "fun" is the competition aspect of it--pitting myself against the many who are better than me and playing as part of a "team". But perhaps when I hit that "certain age" I will rethink that .

* ijhutch *

[Edited by ijhutch on Mar 4th, 2005 at 02:20 AM]

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ijhutch
Thanks for the invite, rainmaker , but part of my "fun" is the competition aspect of it--pitting myself against the many who are better than me and playing as part of a "team". But perhaps when I hit that "certain age" I will rethink that .

It's just something to keep in mind. There is a certain amount of competition in reffing -- trying to be as good as other refs and move up through the levels. And there's definitely team work with the partner(s) and the table. It's out there for you to grab when you're ready.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ijhutch

Ok, so continuing this H.S. nuance, I release the ball as I'm falling. I hit the ground, the ball is bouncing next to me (barely). At what point can I pick up the ball (if at all)? Do I have to have a pivot foot established (basically, be back on my feet)? And what can I do with it if I _can_ pick it up? Pass only or dribble too? BTW, I'm guessing that kid was 19 or 20 :-O

This sounds like a dribble to me. You cannot travel while dribbling, IOO you can fall down when you have control of the ball *IF* you are dribbling the ball.

Under HS & NCAA rules.

So to answer your question you can "pick up" the ball (end your dribble) whenever you like, as long as you do it after you hit the floor.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Hi, hutch. Welcome to the board. For fun and aerobic exercise, you can't beat reffing. I'd like to invite you to join us! Playing is good, but reffing is the best, and it's great exercise! The camaraderie is tremendous, the pay isn't bad for a hobby, and it's cheaper exercise than going to the gym. Doing a good job in a good game is the most exhilarating (woo! spelling challenge!) thing you can do after a certain age -- which will go unspecified. I strongly recommend you give it a try!

Rainmaker is our official(no pun intended) recruiter, I'm sure she can give you some cool pamplets, you know the ones you can never figure out how to fold back to its original state.

[Adam]

Originally posted by rainmaker

It's just something to keep in mind. There is a certain amount of competition in reffing -- trying to be as good as other refs and move up through the levels. And there's definitely team work with the partner(s) and the table. It's out there for you to grab when you're ready.

I would only add that there's nothing that says you need to stop playing when you start reffing. You can do both.