We have 2 school boards in the city. Catholic and Public. Each school has their own athletics association, for the middle school games the public board uses certified refs. The Catholic board uses volunteer officials so the officiating isn't always of quality.

I volunteer my time to work some of these Catholic school games. I'm one of the only "patched" officials to work this league, so I usually get the top notch games. They have 3 divisions. A, B, and C with A being the highest. I was watching the B final, as I was working the A final, and was preparing for the game. The two teams were green and white. Now with 10 seconds left on the clock white is down by 1. White has the ball in their back-court and calls a timeout.

Now the first error by these officials, they had the ball thrown in after the timeout at centre court as opposed to where the ball was at the time the timeout was called.

Now, I don't think that really made much of a difference.

But this one did, on the throw-in following the timeout, green is playing awesome defence, but a white player manages to get open near the basket. The thrower throws the ball to him, and he's in a great position for the shot, when I hear a whistle. I look over to the official who administered the throw-in, and he called travelling on the thower. I was so shocked. It was horrible that such ignorance of the rules exists.

Now I was doing the next game with a "patched" official who's done the girls provincial tournament for the last 2 years, and this year is going to one of the boys tournaments, and he was in as much shock as I was. But we joked about it throughout our game.

I just felt so bad for the white team, because they had perfect position for a shot, and this official cost them it.

Now this official (who called the travel on the throw-in) also coaches AAU type ball and has felt the wrath of ref18 before, but still, if those are the calls he expects to be made on one of his games, he's up for a rude awakening. :(


Edited for spelling.

[Edited by ref18 on Feb 27th, 2005 at 08:35 PM]

Did the coach survive the wrath of the mighty Whackinator?

http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/donderwolk.gif

Love the picture JR!! It's great!!! :) :D

Are you sure there wasn't a throw in violation for moving off the spot and the official just mistakenly used the traveling mechanic? After all, you said you had to look over at the official after hearing the whistle which implies you were not looking at the thrower during the throwin.

I was looking at the thower during the throw in, until he let go of the ball. It was a late whistle, the thrower didn't leave his spot, just shuffled his feet. Completely legal.

Even if it was a blown call, the ref didn't cost the team the game. The team in question likely had many opportunities to prevent being down by 1 at that point in the game. Don't be so quick to puke on a volunteer ref. You get what you pay for.

Yup, how many layups did they miss?

Now it was a good game, both teams played well and were evenly matched. Some shots were missed, but overall not many were taken as both teams had exceptional defence.

I guess the real reason it pissed me off was because, this person has been volunteering for a few years, and has been making stupid calls like this for a while. I've tried to explain the correct rule and interpretation, but this person is just so ignorant he doesn't care. It has to be done his way. Maybe he didn't cost the team the game, but he made a call that directly affected the outcome of the game.

Get in, get done, and get out. :)

It's "defense".

I don't really get why you took this so personally. You're a first year ref, correct? No doubt you still have a lot to learn as well. Volunteers should take no crap from anyone. If the leagues want to pay for better refs, they have that option. Otherwise, again, they get what they pay for.

It depends on where you are.

At last count, I've been doing this for 4 years.

So you know it all then? How can you rip on a volunteer? Why take it so personally that you get pissed off about it? Maybe your gripe should be with the league - try and get them to pay for referees so they can get more quality officiating. There's no excuse for ripping on a volunteer.

I'm not ripping on the volunteer, I volunteer for this too. I also try to give the kids a well reffed game, the same game I'd give if I was on the floor doing a boys varsity game. The fact that I've discussed this rule and others with this official in the past, but yet nothing seems to stick with him. I think if he doesn't want to do the best possible job, then he's doing the kids a disservice, and he shouldn't be there.

In my opinion there were other refs more deserving of that game. Refs who care, refs who know what there doing, and will give the kids a well reffed game.

Believe it or not, there are a lot of adults who would be reluctant to take advice from an 18 year old. Right or wrong. Perhaps it's the way you "discussed" it. Perhaps it's something entirely else. Point is, you will find that there are ways to communicate with people that will be effective and ways that will be ineffective. Maybe if you looked at this situation from a different perspective you would see that perhaps you are more a part of the problem, and not enough a part of the solution.

I'll bet this guy is doing the best possible job that he can do. Why volunteer his time if he was trying to be bad at what he's doing? You think you know more, and maybe you do, but it's really irrelevant. Work on your communication skills so that when you do try and educate someone about a particular rule, it comes across in a way they will accept your input. Being a good referee and teaching someone else to be a good referee are 2 entirely different skills.

The referee did get done. He did get done a crappy job.

Individuals like those are the ones that pull down the officiating world, when they don't adjust to help that is provided to them, year after year, as ref18 has noted.

My first year reffing (in fact, something like my 5th game ever), I called an OB violation for bouncing the ball OB ona throw-in. My P, a woman (Paunee Pepper (sp?), for you JR) told me that she "didn't think that was a rule." I never called it again, including before I knew it wasn't illegal.

Whenever I do a game with a new official, whether he or she be 16 or 50, I will try to give some advice. Some times, I pull out my pre-game board and we'll go over positioning, other times, I will give them advice on mechanics, or I may just give them a proper interpretation of a rule. I communicate my advice in a nice way, and usually I get thanked by the official for the advice. When I'm doing triple-headers with the same partner, I can even see them using some of the pointers I gave them.

No one really has complained or ignored my advice like this guy. If he wants to make up his own rules, then he should give the game to someone who will give the players a properly reffed game.

Hey Ref18,

Never pick on volunteers doing youth sports. If it wasn't for the volunteers (coaches, board members, concession stands etc.) there would be no youth sports. Also sometimes it appears that an official cost a team a game. The reality is that if they made their free throws didn't turn the ball over etc. this wouldn't have been a factor. Good calls and bad calls are part of the game. Just don't pick on volunteers.

Take it from my past experience - ripping on any ref on this website is not a good idea, whether they deserve it or not.

You clearly just don't get it. Maybe when you grow up you will. Good luck.

What arrogance on your part.

IMO Ref18 is 100% correct in his concern over this situation. The league itself is also to some extent to blame in this for not providing training for the volunteer refs.

I think where it is spelled "defence," there are a lot of people there who are "oot and aboot playin' ockey."

Eh?

Arrogance on my part? That's funny. So the both of you think a volunteer ref should be every bit as schooled as a paid one? That's brilliant. If the league wanted trained refs, they could pay for them. What "situation" is so significant that it should raise everyone's concern? Is it that a volunteer made a potentially bad call? The horror of it all. God knows trained refs never make a bad call... :rolleyes:

No where am I expecting him to be as trained as we are, but I am expecting some level of training. At the beginning of the season, I ran a training clinic for all refs in this league, he didn't show. At it I covered several of the myths about basketball officiating and some other misconceptions, this was one of them. If you are going to volunteer, then volunteer to do your best game. Don't slack off because it's only the kids who suffer.

What does "then volunteer to do your best game" mean to you? Never make a mistake? Do you ever make a mistake? Just last week you made a statement regarding a backcourt violation situation that was blatantly wrong. Should you be castigated for that because you are expected to be perfect since you are "patched"? If the kids are suffering so much because they lost a game, then something else is very wrong here. You seem to think that because this guy didn't heed the advice of the master (you), he has no business being on the court, as a volunteer no less. What utter nonsense.

Agree with Smitty
 

I find it a little odd that you were able to watch the White team play "awesome defence" and yet still keep your eye on the thrower the whole time and was able to see him/her shuffle his feet .
Did you ask this ref what he saw ? Is it possible that they shuffled too far ?
I think you are being waaaay too tough on this guy....I sense that there is some dislike between the two of you . You seem to be up on your games but you may be a little too much for a guy who just wants to volunteer some time but not all day including training sessions and pre-game .
What grade level is this ? From your description of the games it is most likely very young kids ....

Battle
 

Dude, I warned you...you're fighting a losing battle. Cut your losses. I was in the same predicament you are a couple of months ago...saw a horribly officiated game and complained...got nothing but grief here for complaining. You're entitled to your opinion, but you won't get any sympathy here. These guys are a tight knit group. As for the spelling errors, you'll get no sympathy from me for that.. :) I'm a Legal Secretary and it's my job to find those!

My post went about 5 pages long before I finally deleted it. Then someone else decided to revive it and ream me some more. Trust me, just walk away from this subject.

Kris, you had other issues.

Julian,
If you feel that strongly about it, then talk to the league about mandating some sort of attendance at your little training session. Otherwise, the fact that he's doing it for free lets him off my hook. Some officials just don't want any help, because they don't want to get better. They've got other priorities, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I will also say this. Like it or not, there are always going to be people who are hard to communicate with. Take the challenge.

I think this is a little too arrogant (IMO we all have some arrogance). It could be the wording since it is hard to convey all communication electronically but it seems sort of preachy to me. I think there are many who wouldn't come across like this and they have been doing this a lot longer than you. I don't want to come down on you though since you are here, you are young and you are trying. I would just say to work on your own game and leave the advice alone unless asked.

To say that he cost them the game on this call necessarily implies that all other calls he did or did not make the entire game were correct. And all of his partner's calls were correct too. In other words, prior to this call, they had a perfect game going. I don't think you can break down a game to saying this one call a ref made determined the outcome, because every call they made or did not make also determined the outcome. If he called a walk, and it wasn't, that team lost a chance to score. If he didn't call a walk that should have been called, that team had a chance to score that they shouldn't have. Saying this one call determined the outcome is the same as saying the guy who stikes out for the third out in the bottom of the ninth in a one run game determined the outcome of the game. He no more determined it than each of his teammates who did not get a hit.