Violent collision, equal opportunity to the ball?

[assignmentmaker]

I didn't see this in today's Kansas/OSU game, but a son called to ask me for a ruling.

The ball was being passed a long ways down the floor from A1 to A2, who was beyond B1. The pass was short. B2 backed up to intercept it as A2 sped up the floor towards the ball. For argument's sake, say that, as they collided, each was able to touch the ball.

I am interested from a high school rules perspective. I have in mind, in particular, 4.27.2, which says " . . . Contact which occurs unintentionally in an effort by an opponent to reach a loose ball, or contact which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe . . ."

I understand that there is team control while a live ball is being passed, but the 'or' phrase in the text above, does not state whether or not the condition of 'loose ball' carries over. If it doesn't, and they had equal opportunity to catch the pass . . .

[JRutledge]

Who has team control or not is not the issue.

The rule at the college level and NF level are almost identical. So the play you described sounds like it was appropriately called (or not called).

Team control plays no part in whether a foul is called or not.

Peace

[mick]

If you are unable to to determine which player was at fault by causing the contact, by being in a favorable postion to avoid, then it may well be just an ugly train wreck with neither player guilty and must be ruled as incidental.

And, like Rut said, disregard team control.
mick

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by mick
If you are unable to to determine which player was at fault by causing the contact, by being in a favorable postion to avoid, then it may well be just an ugly train wreck with neither player guilty and must be ruled as incidental.

I would no call this but would ever of you double foul?

[mick]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

I would no call this but would ever of you double foul?

Snake~eyes,
If both players were at fault and/or if both were in favorable positions to avoid, then, of course, we may easily have a double foul.
mick

[paxsonref]

You better get the car started if you make a double foul call in that situation. . .

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by paxsonref
You better get the car started if you make a double foul call in that situation. . .

1. I agree that control doesn't play a role legally, but I think it's a big influence all the time, the call favoring the team in control.

2. I have never seen a double foul called in that situation, ever, at any level.

As a matter of curiosity, where do you ever see a double foul called except in post play?

[Dudly]

Had a similar play at a camp. I saw neither player gaining an advantage or placing the other at a disadvantage, so I no called it. Both players are on the floor. I was told that anytime a player hits the floor hard I have to call something.
Still to this day I remember that, still to this day I choose to ignore that comment.

[mick]

Originally posted by Dudly
Had a similar play at a camp. I saw neither player gaining an advantage or placing the other at a disadvantage, so I no called it. Both players are on the floor. I was told that anytime a player hits the floor hard I have to call something.
Still to this day I remember that, still to this day I choose to ignore that comment.

That advice rings in my head often, Dudly.
Right or wrong, I look for a reason to call something, rather than simply disregard the notion.
mick

[Dudly]

Mick,
I agree. In this play I didn't see no right or wrong. Probably only time this will ever happened to me. 99.9% of the time one of the players is putting the other at a disadvantage. I used to have a quick whistle seeing the play as I thought it would develop. Now I have a slight delay as I evaluate how the play developed.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

As a matter of curiosity, where do you ever see a double foul called except in post play?

\
Blarge?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Dudly
Had a similar play at a camp. I saw neither player gaining an advantage or placing the other at a disadvantage, so I no called it. Both players are on the floor. I was told that anytime a player hits the floor hard I have to call something.
Still to this day I remember that, still to this day I choose to ignore that comment.

Good for you.

MTD, Sr.

I get sick and tired of it when coaches (especially at the younger levels) scream for a foul every time a kid ends up on the floor, even if it's because the kid forgot to tie his damn shoes and tripped on the loose lace!!!! I had some coaches yelling foul when kids were tripping over their own foot during a tournament this past weekend. Heck, a kid got floored by his own teammate going for a loose ball and coach was screaming for a foul. Pathetic, eh?

[IREFU2]

Anyone see that Goal Tending near the end of the game? The ball was on the glass and then it pinned? Fortunately the "C" official called the foul, but the commentators thought the basket should have been counted. Comments?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by IREFU2
Anyone see that Goal Tending near the end of the game? The ball was on the glass and then it pinned? Fortunately the "C" official called the foul, but the commentators thought the basket should have been counted. Comments?

"Pinning" the ball is NOT one of the ways to commit GT or BI.