Had a game Monday night where the fouls were something like 7 to 1. Not that I care, I only remember because the coach said something to me about it. He said: "Come on ref, the fouls are 7 to 1." So I pulled the line "Sorry coach, I don't count them I call them." He said: "I never said you did, I'm counting them." Sooo you great come back people out there, what would you have said back?

"Let me know when it gets to 10 so I know we're shooting two."

If the complaining coach is ahead in the score, you can tell him you'll even up the fouls but it means you have to even up the score, too.

If the complaining coach is behind in the score, just tell him they'll never win if they keep fouling so much.

I've heard partners say something like, "you're right coach and it's going to be 10 to 1 here in a minute if your team keeps fouling."

As much as I'd sometimes like to be witty, I just say something like, "coach, we're aware of that too.... It'd be easier on us if the fouls were 5 to 5 but it just doesn't work out that way sometimes."

Z

"Make sure you count the one I am going to give you as 2!"

He said: "I never said you did, I'm counting them."

..."and you're doing a fine job coach, thanks for the help."

My favorite line in this situation is, "And that means WHAT?"

The coach is making a personal attack when they start this nonsense. They are either accusing you of complete incompetence or cheating, and I don't find either funny or deserving of a snappy comeback.

The smart ones get that they have crossed the line and recognize that this was a warning, the others don't and get whacked.

Maybe you didn't see the fine print on the screen when we joke about the smart 1 liners:

"Performed by a professional on a closed track. Do not try this at home."

Now you know why it's there. ;)

BTW, I have a choice of 2 answers, depending on how p1ssy I'm feeling at the time:

1. "I hear ya coach."
2. "That's not my issue coach, it's a coaching issue."

Either is almost always met by silence.

How is stating a fact the same as accusing you of cheating?

Because this "fact" is just saying, "If you were doing your job well, or fairly, the foul count would not be 7-1."

It also falls under 10-4-1-B attempting to influence an official's decision.

If it has standing or gesturing along with the statement add article E.

If it is loud enough so the crowd picks it up, throw in article F.

Maybe in your universe.

In mine it is just a frustrated coach saying "Fouls are 7-1 against me".

What if he just said "Score is 23-12 against me".

Or "My point guard couldn't dribble if he had a mouth full of novacaine."

You gonna T him up?

You have got to be kidding?

That is the biggest apple to orange comparison in the history of this forum. :rolleyes:

No, because he doesn't expect me to score points for him or dribble the ball for his point guard. But when the fouls are 7-1, he's expecting me to start calling fouls on the other team to even it up.

Dan, you can't honestly tell me that when a coach says this to you, he's not complaining that you're calling the game unfairly? C'mon, you know better than that. He is NOT saying, "Gosh darnit, I wish my kids would quit fouling." He's saying, "You guys aren't calling it both ways!"

IMHO, that is far from a personal attack. It's just a coach doing what coaches do... being an advocate for their team. They think they see thier kids being fouled and we aren't calling it and/or they see fouls being called on their kids that they don't think were fouls. They are seeing the game through the biased glasses that all coaches wear. You can address the comments, but if you think that's a personal attack, you're going to be setting a record for "whacks."

Z

A coach that throws a clipboard and screams, "Call that F'ing foul!" is being an advocate for his team too. It does not mean it's not personal or appropriate.;)

Also where did I say it was a automatic whack? I said they get the "WHAT" warning and if they keep it up they get whacked?

Tony, wtf do I care what he expects?

I imagine he expects he might leave the gym with another W. He doesn't always get it, does he? I already told you my reply when he complains about the foul count.

If the foul count gets to 7-1 believe me I know it before he does, and I know there's a reason for it. His comment is not gonna change the way the game is being called.

You don't think there is a HUGE difference between throwing a clipboard and mentioning a discrepancy in the foul count?

Z

Apples & oranges?

Virtually everything a coach says to me in a reasonable manner is treated the same: in one ear, out the other. I don't care if he's complaing about the foul count, the score, the traffic, his bunions or his mother-in-law.

Listening to coaches b1tching comes with the territory.

There are degrees to everything. You are the one who came up with the o' shucks he's just being an advocate for his team nonsense.

The big difference in the two is that one is an automatic T, and the other gets a warning, but both are personal attacks on the job we are doing in the game.

One might be tempted to say apples & oranges here.

And one would be incorrect.

Whoa.

Commenting on the foul count is the same as throwing a clipboard and screaming "WHERE'S THE F*CKING FOUL!!!!!!!"?

Where is it you referee again? :rolleyes:

No, the big difference is that one is a coach going nuts and the other is a coach making a comment. It wasn't me that came up with the "coach being an advocate" thing (although I wish it were). It was a D-1 ref. I can't diffuse a coach who tosses a clipboard and swears.. he's already gone over the deep end. But I find it quite easy to diffuse a coach who makes the foul count remark. One big reason it's easy is because I don't turn it into a personal attack - because it isn't.

Z

Put the popcorn away, I'm not bored enough to play their stupid game tonight.:D

http://www.people.virginia.edu/~rjh9u/gif/squeaks.gif

Dude, it's a llama!

I'd ask the coach if he'd like it to be 8-1. :D

Had a similar situation, team A 6-1 in team fouls.
Coach says It's 6-1 in team fouls ref.
I replied you might want to tell your kids to stop fouling.
Next time out he said "Guys, you've got to stop fouling"
Both me and my partner smiled.

High school JV Boys. Team A is up by 15 ..4 minutes left in the game. Fouls are 8-2; Team A has 2 fouls called on them, Team B has 8. Team A coach says I gotta start calling it both ways. I guess he didn't want to beat the spread.

"Yes, Sir....I hear ya" is about all I give it. IF the coach is more than just "talking" and being a bit more emphatic, I'll give him just a look, but a direct one, when I reply, but all I give is just a simple response.

It depends on the game, the situation, the history between you and the coach, the coach's personality, etc., etc., but the interaction between myself and the coach, regardless of whether it's foul count or what look I had at a particular play, is all part of game management and I'm certainly not looking to say or do anything that is counter to what the coach is trying to communicate - why would I give them the opportunity to start or continue an argument or present myself at odds? Let 'em have their say (if we were coaching with a 7-1 foul count we'd certainly be aware of it and more than probably feel the need to mention it, too), and move on.

Believe it or not, he ain't your buddy and being "cute" or "snappy" isn't going to change that...but it does run the risk of further frusting him and that doesn't help.

This is long.

Rainmaker's vent on another thread got me to thinking about, why as a coach or fan, I get frustrated, and say sometimes rational - and sometimes irrational - things. This thread makes me think about it more, and offer an opinion from "the dark side".

Please understand, that I know what I'm about to say is not necessarily the "right" way to act. Sometimes, it just happens.

As a coach, if I complain about a foul discrepancy, for example, first of all, I'm not complaining because I think you're biased against me, and am certainly not trying to attack you personally. My reasons could be one or more of the following:

1. As you know, many of basketball's calls are judgment calls (see the thread Bang Bang Play). I may think I see the same amount of contact on both ends but, in your judgment, the level of contact is different. I may be trying to convince you the level of contact is the same.

2. I may be in a close game played at a fevered pitch. While you rightfully don't care who wins, I, of course, do. If a close call goes against me, I may rant, because I know its an opportunity that got away. I will also let my star post know a missed dunk at a critical time was an extremely stupid idea.

3. I may be out of options. My team may be having a bad night, or the other team might be having a good night. I may be pulling out all stops to get the momentum on my side. Hey, its not right or defendable, but it happens.

Last, if I'm frustrated, witty remarks might quiet me, but they won't defuse my frustration. I can't speak for others, but for me, Zebraman's response would be the most helpful:

"coach, we're aware of that too.... It'd be easier on us if the fouls were 5 to 5 but it just doesn't work out that way sometimes."

interesting and similar
 

I had a similar situation or so I thought a couple weeks ago. Small town, girls varsity,the home team had lost. We stayed to watch the boys varsity game. As we walk up to our little corner, we pass the home team girls coach. We get a thumbs up, nice job and think cool all is well... Then he approaches with the scorebook and says you want to see why we have lost the last 3 or 4 games...and shows me the free throw discrepency.... I am thinking uh oh here it comes, then he says, I just can't convince them to quit fouling....they keep fouling and the other team keeps shooting free throws....... Wheeeew LOL

Influencing an officials decision? So the next time a ball is knocked out of bounds and you have 7 kids pointing as to which way the ball should go, is that 7 T's? They were trying to influence the official into giving them the ball. . . . Just about every comment ever made by a coach, even the respectfully made ones, are in attempt to influence the decisions of the officials. . . . its tough to use that as a reasoning as it happens all the time.

And we complain about why sportsmanship is so bad.

#1 the coach IS attacking your credibility and integrity with the foul count comment.

#2 why would they point this out, if not to attempt to influence how you are calling the game?

#3 if they are standing up in gesturing they are not using the coaches box within the rules.

#4 if they are doing so loudly, they are bringing the crowd into the situation.

You may really need to look at 10-4 again.

What you allow you promote.;)