Recently I had a partner (by name, but not by nature) who:

1 - Showed up 30 seconds into the game, so I started solo.
2 - Disappeared during the first time out to go to another court to BS with someone over there, then didn't return when it was time to resume play, so I resumed play myself.
3 - Disappeared at halftime and didn't return in time to start the second half, so I resumed play myself.
4 - Walked the entire game. And walked slowly back downcourt (coming from lead to new trail I almost passed him) with his back to the court, never once looking back until he was set on the baseline.
5 - Never came over during a timeout to introduce himself or say anything.
6 - Never broke a sweat.
7 - Hardly blew his whistle unless it was for a ball out of bounds.
8 - Talked to people on the side, made faces, and generally acted as if it was beneath him to be there, and what difference did it make what he did?

Now, I'm still relatively new at this, and I would have no problem working with someone who's new and doesn't know exactly how everything goes yet. But it was obvious to me this wasn't a kid, this was a veteran who was slumming for the day and was not the least bit interested in what was going on on our court.

I just called my game, hustled, did what I was supposed to do (it was the last of three games for me on the day) and didn't worry about him, but it ticked me off. When I left, I told the guy who was going to have to work the next three games with him "good luck!"

Now, here's my dilemma - as a relative newcomer still, do I risk a political upheaval by telling the assignor I don't want to work with the guy anymore? For all I know, he's best buds with the assignor, and I have a sweet deal at this facility. But they're not paying me enough to have to work with this guy - it's supposed to be a little bit fun, right?

Yeah, it's fun to work with Chuck, aint it?

Just keep your mouth shut, you'll be fine.

Don't worry about it. You'll get partners who are much worse than that.

I should know. My partners tell me that all the time.

Hey - wait a minute.....

Question
 

What level was the game?

Peace

You already did when you told the next guy "good luck".
Translation: This guy sucks!

Unless you can trust this guy you talked to...you are risking making an enemy of a veteran.
Yeah, if everything you say happened...this guy showed a lack of professionalism.
If this guy had done these things to JR, Tony, Dan, or a host of other veterans that post here, they probably would have chewed him a new a****** or told him to get lost...and do the game alone.

Remember what mick says, OAB...you are new...
Get in.
Get done.
Get out.

Fair enough. Yeah, I know the next guy in question. If I piss off a veteran, oh well. The game is bigger than all of us, and if you can't at least put a minimum of effort in, don't show up.

And as I've said before, it's not like I'm on some sort of career track here.

But get in, get done, get out is fair enough.

Good Luck in your next avocation. :)

All veterans are not made the same. There are many veterans that no one respects and no one cares to piss off. There is a reason why certain veterans work certain types of games. It is not becasue they are just so much better than everyone else.

Peace

Ya think? :)

My point is...you've got 37 total games under your new pleated pants.
Sh**** veteran or not...why piss him off?
Wait untill you've got just a little more experience before you start criticizing veterans to other officials in your association.
(That's one of the reasons to post on this forum...you can let off steam without the politics involved.)

JRut, if this guy needs plumed up...let veterans like yourself do it...not some 1st year guy...IMO.

Having said all that...I could care less what this new guy wants to do...maybe it will work for him...again, good luck.

I see your point, but you missed my point all together. If this guy is a "veteran" he probably is not very respected coming in with 30 seconds to go before game time. If he did come in that late, if he had any respect for the game or his partner, he would have all kinds of explanations for his behavior. He did not according to the post. Along with the other things, he probably is in it for the money and does not care about the game or how he is perceived. Who cares if O&B says something to this guy? I am the vice-president of a basketball division and I can tell you that there are guys that get little or not respect by certain assignors and board members (not just this organization either). That is partly the case because these type of officials come in late, do not wear the proper uniform, has no respect from the coaches and administrators, has no respect from their fellow officials and most of all cannot work a game worth a damn. So pissing off this guy might not matter at all. You are making it out to be that if O&B pisses off this guy his career is over, WRONG!!! He might piss off this guy and find out that others think this official is a clown as well. I had a run in with a former state final official and my career has done nothing but take off since my encounter. I would take a guess that this official has not worked a state final anytime lately.

Peace

Get real -- it's not this bad.

How do you know how "bad" it is Rich?

You don't know the rookie...you don't know the veteran.
And either do I.
Granted, the veteran probably isn't the cream of the crop...and granted, I probably am overstating things a bit...but, IMO, rookies should hustle (as OAB said he does), rookies should work with whoever the assignor assigns them (OAB stated he might request to never work with this guy again), rookies should study rules (OAB is showing he is willing to do that by being here), rookies should learn from bad examples (done), rookies should put forth their best attitude in bad situations (there will be plently just starting out), and rookies should nod their head alot (even if they completly disagree with the vet)...the rookies chance will come...be patient.
A couple three years...you very well could be Lead official over these very vets.

Now, as you grow in your experience, knowledge and credability...have at it with the state championship official...the exchanges may do you both good.

But, a rookie, nah....again, just IMO.

Your dissent has been noted. Thanks. And you sure have a strong opinion for someone who doesn't care what I do (and I'm a second-year guy, FWIW - does that mean I can go a half-step further, or a full step, or what? When do I get the right to be a part of your little reindeer games, exactly?).

I'm not talking about expecting NBA Finals Game 7 effort on a sixth-grade girls game here, folks. I'm talking about expecting sixth-grade girls effort on a sixth-grade girls game. That's all I and my 37 games under my new pleated pants have a right to expect out of anybody.

I should have said "If I piss off this veteran, so what?" As JRut said, not all veterans are created equally. He's been around me, ask him how deferential I am to veterans and willing to learn. Someone shows me they deserve respect, they get it. And anyone who thinks that someone who's relatively new at this has to walk two steps behind with his head down and say "Thank you sir, may I have another?" to someone else just by virtue of the fact the other person has been working longer doesn't exactly earn it, either. If that's me being out of school, then so be it.

But they don't get it simply because they're on the court with me, especially since you never get a second chance to make a first impression.

Rookie Dude,

I think it depends on what kind of game it is. If this is an rec. league, AAU type game, I can tell you with a lot of confidence that no one is going to get upset at Over and Back for speaking up to this clown. If this is a high school game (which is the only game that really matters around here as you move up the ranks), then the conduct of the Over and Back could let some challenges. I live in the same area that Over and Back does and I can tell you that what goes on at a non-high school game is not a career buster if he chooses to speak up. Now if something happens at a HS game and this veteran is really big time, then he would be working varsity games on a regular basis and probably would not be working these kinds of games in the first place.

Peace

It wasn't me. When I walk to the endline, I don't just have my back to the court -- I look back over my shoulder to check out the cute girl who's keeping the book.

BTW, this is the guy all the coaches always complain about.

As for ruining your career by complaining about someone, as Emiliano Zapata said, "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees."

Y'know, its overstating the comparison, but the more time I spend on this forum, the more I see a similarity between you and police officers. You're a tight-knit group, often in an adversarial relationship with the people you interact with. Cops protect the public while overseeing administration of the law - you protect the game by overseeing administration of its rules.

But, just like the police, one bad apple can ruin the reputation of the larger group (e.g., Rodney King). Unfortunately, because the police often feel like they can only rely on each other, when dealing with bad cops they simply close ranks. Giving up another cop is very difficult.

Ultimately, though, such an approach hurts the public's trust. And, if you take the same approach as officials, you're hurting the game.

No matter what level I'm coaching, I'm giving my best to the kids. I screw up...a lot. But, its never because I'm not trying my hardest. I expect the same from my players and the officials.

I agree with what you're saying. However, your comparison doesn't quite hold in this sitch. OverAndBack is more like a whistleblower in a corrupt precinct. It's not that we're protecting the "bad" refs, just agreeing with OAB that trying to bust a bad 'un might have consequences. There are lots of parts of the country where there's only one reffing group and if you split on it, you're done. That's a tough choice for a new addict.

I don't know why but I got an urge to rent "Serpico" tonight.

theboys,

I think you are really overstating it a bit. We are not like cops. Cops can make decisions that affect life or death. We also rip a lot of fellow officials on this site all the time when it comes to many issues. Your interactions with not only officials can affect you, but so can what you do with coaches, fans and the school administration you have to deal with. I think there are those that come from situations that it would be a bad thing to speak up. Well the area that this place took place is not like that. There is no one association that has that much power. There is not one person that has that much power to ruin anyone's career here. And not too many folks are going to have a fit over what happens at a lower level game in the first place. I really think most people have overreacted and are bringing in their own local politics to this discussion when they would not apply here. Our state office assigns playoff games, not a local association. Conferences hire an assignor to assign their officials and are fired if they do not satisfy the wants of the principals and ADs. Speaking out about a single lower level veteran is not going to eliminate all possibilities of working in the future. It just comes down to how you do it.

I worked a game at a tournament a few years ago and saw a veteran working in a pair of black jeans for officiating pants. I found out that many officials had little or no respect for this guy and others felt the same way I did about this "veteran." My career has been nothing but spectacular since. Get the picture.

Peace