Is it palming, or not?

http://www.bigbluestorm.com/quickcli...indtheback.wmv

Not on my whistle.

Sure about that? It has to be a travel or a palm.

Yup, the official called it. That makes it a done deal. Judgement call.

Looked to me like he nailed it too.

Nailed- Got it wrong, or Nailed- Got it right?

Right, Brandan.

B, if you're hitting a nail with a hammer and you "nail" it, does that mean you missed the nail?

The more obvious carry was right after the steal up against the sideline.

Hmmmm... Idk.... I didnt look at it that way. :-p

Not on my whistle, either. I'm surprised it was called in a D-I game.

Perhaps we should have a distinction:

By rule, is it plaming?

If, by rule, it's palming, would you call it?

By rule, he did behind his back, what is described as a carry when he moved the ball across his body and put it down.

In the open court with no defender, it needs to be A LOT more blatant, than this dribble was, for me to call it.

When I was presented with the play, I made the statement that this is a crossover carry that he did behind his back, as opposed to in ront of his body, which is similiar to what you've stated.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Feb 12th, 2005 at 01:55 PM]

I slowed the play down to slow motion and the point at which the dribble ends has the right foot as the pivot poot. The next dribble was released before that same right foot returned to the floor. In my mind, there is no travel there. You could have a double dribble.

Also in the slo-mo, it did look like a palming violation to me. I think that the defender being tricked by the play may have had an impact on the official's ruling.

If you look closely you can see the ball resting in his palm as he brings it behind his back. That ends the dribble. I've got a carry or double dribble, it could have been called either way. Good call by the officials, I didn't catch it until the close up, but that official got it right. If you ever read this forum, good job man, that was a great call. :)

Mike, as 4-43-3-c "After establishing a pivot foot, the pivot foot bay not be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble"

So when the next dribble was released before the pivot foot returned to the floor it would be a travel.

The next dribble has to be released before the pivot foot leaves the floor.

So there's 3 things that could've been called here, travel, illegal dribble, or carrying.


Mike, here's something you'd probably find funny, as I was leaving the gym after doing my morning games, I get cut off by this black car, now I'm swearing at the guy, when I look at his license plate "AL 54" :D:D:D:D

[Edited by ref18 on Feb 12th, 2005 at 02:24 PM]

This is a good clip BBR.

Of course we have the luxury of seeing this play over and over...and in slow motion if we choose.

Could be palming by rule...obviously close.

Having said that...would you as an official rather miss this call by blowing the whistle?
Or would you as an official rather miss this call with a "no-call"?

Ball coming across the division line...
D-1 game...I'm going to error on the side of a no-call.

I'd call it, showboating can only get you so far. :p

I would call it.

I'd call it in high school. It seems to me that the laws of physics would make this move impossible without palming.

NO

Dick Vitale sucks..that's all I have to add to this discussion.

Well, yeah, in a girls game.

I have a question and a comment.

The question: Where is the picture of the squirrel with the big nuts?

The comment: My nuts aren't that BIG to call that!

Props to the official, definate carry!

JMO

Nice! I'm thinking about changing my plate actually.

Currently, it has the Star Trek logo on it, from my old University days (yes, I've had the car that long) when I was a trekkie.

My new idea: nothing except the numerals 8 and 5, side by side. ;)

I went back to look at it again. I incorrectly said that the right foot was the pivot foot. It was the left.

Julian, your text does not apply to the conclusion that I came to based on the video. I ruled that the player took two steps in between dribbles, which is legal.

I also came to the new conclusion that the foot was released before the next dribble was started. Therefore, calling a double dribble violation could only exist if one ignored the travel. I think that a double dribble, by definition, is the wrong call. Why would you ignore the travel but call a double dribble?

Is 85 available??

You gave up being a trekkie?? Why would you want to do that, Star Trek is classic :)

Now, today after my games one of the assistant coaches compared me to the referees of your hometown. I just don't know whether it's a compliment or an insult. ;)

I like the new conclusion ;)

Sounds like a winner. I wish I had him. :)

Definately a carrying violation. When they show the angle from above the backboard, it's obvious - the ball is resting in the (former) dribbler's hand, not moving, as he brings it across his back. *TWEET*

What are you saying? Physics are different in a boys' game?

Wait, I have this Ben Wright quote running through my head. ;)

Do you mean Steven Wright?

Nah, I mean Ben Wright. Ben Wright was the golf analyst that got fired from CBS Sports about 10 years ago for saying, amongst other really stupid things, that women cannot be as good as men in golf because their breasts get in the way. For some (purely innocent, I swear!) reason that quote popped into my head when I read "physics."

Anyhoo, here's a story that has the quote:

http://www.glaad.org/media/archive_detail.php?id=240

I'm a bit punch drunk -- I drove 128 miles one way to work a game that was 28-12 after one quarter and during which we called about six million fouls, including an intentional on a breakaway with about 2 minutes left -- the foul was on a kid from the team winning by 25 points.

--Rich

I was riding the bus and I set down next to this beautiful asian woman who was crying.

I asked her what was wrong and she said, "You are a complete stranger, I can't tell you."

I said, "Sometimes it's easier to tell a stranger."

So she says, "I just came from my psychiatrist and he said I'm a nymphomaniac, but I'm only turned on by Jewish cowboys."

I said, "Let me introduce myself, I'm Bucky Goldstein.":D

Ben must not watch much women's golf because most of them don't have any....well, you get the picture. :D

"I was walking down the street when the prescription on my glasses ran out..."

"My wife and I put in a skylight this weekend. The people in the apartment upstairs are really pissed!"

I moved into an appartment with a switch on the wall that seemed to do nothing. Every time I walked by it I would switch it on & off, but nothing happened. Two months later I got a letter from a woman in Germany, it said "Cut it out".

If you are traveling at the speed of light and you turn on your headlights does anything happen?

I bought a box of powdered water, but I did not know what to add.

I've been so depressed.

I was seeing this young lady, she's originally from Ireland. She's an illegal alien, she's not registered.

I don't what happened. But, she broke up with me so I reported her to immigration.

I'm sorry, sweetie if we can't be together, you gotta get the f*** out of my country. :D

I got a job at a factory that makes fire hydrants but I had to quit. I could never find a place to park.

I fell in love with my dental hygienist, so every time I went in for a cleaning I'd eat an entire box of Oreos in the waiting room.

They'd have to cancell the rest of their appointments.

The ball comes to rest in a dribbler's hand about 400 times per game in a D1 basketball game. Did I say game, I meant half. That's a lot of "tweets". Let me know how that works out for you (this was not meant as an insult, just a quote for my favorite show, PTI, that seemed appropriate).

"I don't have to walk my dog anymore. I walked him all at once. He was fun when he was a puppy. I named him Stay. When I'd call him I'd say C'mere Stay C'mere Stay and he'd go like this... He's a lot smarter than that now. Now when I call him he just ignores me and keeps on typing."

I have heard Reggie Greenwood say a couple of times that it is better to make a mistake by omission rather than commission. We have the benefit of replay and slow motion to comment on this play. A slightly delayed whistle was used to make this call and Gary Maxwell did a good job on the call. The defender was obviously put at a disadvantage by this move and he did carry the ball.

For the poster that mentioned how many times carrying occurs in a D1 game you should also consider how much contact occurs and a variety of things. It would probably take 5 hours to play a game if things were called black and white. Hank Nichols does stress the need for calls like this to be made and Gary Maxwell made the correct call. I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone here, but it is funny to me how sometimes officials who make calls like this are criticized but officials who make more than 14 obvious mistakes in a national semi final are looked up to. Baffles the mind.

I live on a one-way, dead end street. I don't know how I got there.

I own a chihuahua. A chihuahua is a dog for lazy people. You don't have to walk it. You just hold it out the window and squeeze.

Sorry to break the awesome string of jokes, but...

...from recent NCAA bulletin, under "Points of Emphasis":

Palming

While more illegal dribble violations (palming) have been called this season than in the past, there are still too many violations not being called. Officials must become more consistent in calling these violations when they occur.

I love the Steven Wright quotes, but I got no call. The ball did not stop any longer than during a hesitation dribble and the hand never touched the bottom of the ball, nor was if facing skyward, so I got nothing.

You make the call!
 

What I like about it is he made a great move (legal or not) then proceeded to throw the ball directly out of bounds!

Agree will all RookieDude's comments!