General Coach Question

Gozer · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 06:23am

I'm new to fourm so heres a quick background of myself. I'm 21 and a Student at KU, I have Officiated Volleyball for 5 years 3 with the KSHSAA (Kansas State Activities Association) and this is my first year of Basketball.

Anyhow, I was dooing a JV game the other night and the coach made some questionable comments to me, fairly loud, hit and miss on wether it encited the crowd. One was "go back to jr high" and "what are you dooing clapping" ( I was dooing the 'touch' sign for when the contact is on the ball). This coaches team was down some 25 pts most the way through the game, and we had a bunch of incidental contact on the court. I would have considered both of these comments innaporperate as they are questioning, mocking what I am calling. Anyhow, I did not give him his earned T because it would have hurt the players and not the coach, and afterall that is who we are out there for.

Just would like some general feedback on this situation, hasent "rested" with me yet.

Take care,

Kenny

Nevadaref · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 06:32am

Kenny,
Welcome to the forum.
1. When the coach told you to go back to jr. high, you definitely should have T'd him. Your failure to do so only hurts the kids more because it allows them to see that kind of behavior go unpunished. We are there not only for a basketball game, but for life lessons. That is the true reason for amatuer sports competition.

2. You should NOT use the tip signal or what the coach described as clapping for a clean block. I know that you sometimes see it on TV, but it is not an official NFHS signal (those which are shown on pages 76+77 of the NFHS Rules Book) and can only get you into trouble. What if your partner calls a foul on a play when you are giving that signal? What a mess. Stick with the official signals, and if a coach asks later what you saw on the play, you can demonstrate or explain to him during a break in the action.

Best wishes.

Gozer · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 06:39am

Thanks for the help. I picked up the "clean block signal" form other officials in my area, ill cut it out... I agree with you 100%. Anyhow, I guess it is just time till i get the confidence up to T on things like that. Only T'd a coach for yelling the F-Bomb at me, that was obvious.

Anyhow, thanks again,

Kenny

Junker · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 09:21am

Go back to Jr. High is an automatic. It sounds like he was begging for one (for some reason a few coaches view this as a strategy). You should have taken care of him earlier. As I'm sure most on the board will tell you, if you walk out of the gym, get in the car and drive home and wish you had tapped him, you should have. Now, on the coaches side, you are a KU fan so you do deserve all the abuse you get! Did I mention I'm an Iowa State guy? Welcome to the board!

mick · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 09:34am

Quote:

Originally posted by Gozer
Thanks for the help. I picked up the "clean block signal" form other officials in my area, ill cut it out... I agree with you 100%. Anyhow, I guess it is just time till i get the confidence up to T on things like that.

Kenny,
Yes to what Nevadaref said and to your understanding.

The *foul tip* should be reserved for diamond games.
Confidence will do a coupla things:

Make it more likely you'll "T" when necessary

Make it less likely the coaches will require a "T"

Fact: Coaches can smell new meat.

Gozer · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 09:41am

By *foul tip* you mean T, and Diamond games??? dont quite follow, could you please explain.

Thanks,

Kenny

Junker · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 09:44am

He's just saying the "foul tip" mechanic some use to show that the ball was tipped, should only be used in baseball and softball. The only time I ever use it on the court is to communicate to partners when a ball is coming from my area and goes out in theirs.

ChrisSportsFan · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 09:46am

Quote:

Originally posted by Gozer
By *foul tip* you mean T, and Diamond games??? dont quite follow, could you please explain.

Thanks,

Kenny

Runner takes a lead, pitcher looks in, get's his sign, comes set, checks the runner, here's the pitch, runner goes, batter swings but doesn't get good contact, ball ricochets to the backstop, umpire says "foul tip" runner has to go back to first.

Nevadaref · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 09:46am

Some people give the "clap" movement or the old UNLV shark clamp when indicating a block or held ball, others use the foul tip signal like a baseball umpire. Mick and I are telling you the same thing. It has no place in basketball. Don't use it.

Junker · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 09:47am

BTW,
Do you work for the KU intramural program at all? I know that at most major colleges, there is a pretty good officials' training program that goes with working intramurals. The games can kind of suck, but its a great place to get some instruction. Just a suggestion.

bob jenkins · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 09:49am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan

Quote:

Originally posted by Gozer
By *foul tip* you mean T, and Diamond games??? dont quite follow, could you please explain.

Thanks,

Kenny

Runner takes a lead, pitcher looks in, get's his sign, comes set, checks the runner, here's the pitch, runner goes, batter swings but doesn't get good contact, ball ricochets to the backstop, umpire says "foul tip" runner has to go back to first.

The play you describe is a "foul" not a "foul tip", despite what the announcers, fans, coaches might say.

Any umpire who says (or indicates) "foul tip" on this should go back to Jr. High.

ChrisSportsFan · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 09:52am

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan

Quote:

Originally posted by Gozer
By *foul tip* you mean T, and Diamond games??? dont quite follow, could you please explain.

Thanks,

Kenny

Runner takes a lead, pitcher looks in, get's his sign, comes set, checks the runner, here's the pitch, runner goes, batter swings but doesn't get good contact, ball ricochets to the backstop, umpire says "foul tip" runner has to go back to first.

The play you describe is a "foul" not a "foul tip", despite what the announcers, fans, coaches might say.

Any umpire who says (or indicates) "foul tip" on this should go back to Jr. High.

I guess it's a good thing I don't umpire baseball/softball. BTW, did you mean the Jr High thing since the coach told Gozer to go back to Jr High? :-)

mick · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 10:04am

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
Any umpire who says (or indicates) "foul tip" on this should go back to Jr. High.

CentralINRef · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 12:38pm

One more thing about the foul tip motion. I aggree that it should never be used in a block no block situation. The one place that I think it can be used in a preventive way is on the play close to the 10 second line where defense tips the ball and ball goes backcourt. In this situation I will use the foul tip motion to let everyone in the gym know that I have seen a tip and that the offensive player has the right to go get the ball in backcourt without violation. To me this if done quickly keeps the coaches from jumping up as they see you give the signal and see that you have seen the play. Any other use is just asking for trouble.

CentralINRef

Adam · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 12:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by CentralINRef
One more thing about the foul tip motion. I aggree that it should never be used in a block no block situation. The one place that I think it can be used in a preventive way is on the play close to the 10 second line where defense tips the ball and ball goes backcourt. In this situation I will use the foul tip motion to let everyone in the gym know that I have seen a tip and that the offensive player has the right to go get the ball in backcourt without violation. To me this if done quickly keeps the coaches from jumping up as they see you give the signal and see that you have seen the play. Any other use is just asking for trouble.

CentralINRef

The coach will know I've seen the play when my whistle blows or doesn't blow. It's not my responsibility to tell the player whether he can touch the ball or not; just as it's not my responsibility to tell a player if I think he can still dribble.