Boys game last night goes to the wire.

We are 3 man crew two veterans and a one young official(who is improving I can say)

We have home team up 59-57 with 3 sec to play. Ball inbounded by visitors under home teams goal.

I'm in C and have the clock. Visitors make two quick passes and somehow guy is wide open in the lane. He is driving away from me to go to the left hand side and right at the lead (young official).

He releases just before horn sounds and I think he is fouled but really could not tell. Lead raises his arm like he has a foul but makes no call.

Coach wants the foul so I go to my lead and ask "did you have a foul" and he says no.

My question is should I have tried to talk him into his foul call since I'm pretty sure there was a foul - shooter ends up on the floor.

He said no foul so we went home.

My trail on the way home (we rode together) said it was a hard foul, but he couldn't make the call from the other end.

I was just wanting to get some input from guys who have been there, what would you do, and etc.

I'm pretty sure I know how I would handle it now that it has happened, but don't we just hate to learn our lessons the hard way.

thanks
David

Let him live or die with it. You were right to go in with information, but you can't bowl him over with your own way. Don't let coach beat him down After the game, talk to him about judgment, and mechanics, both of which he needs to work on. Do it in a "learning opportunity" way. Then drop it.

No

As the C were you close enough to make this call. That is part of your area and you mentioned that you were pretty sure that he was fouled. If you saw a foul I think you should have gone and got it instead of waiting for a younger official to pick up the difficult call in a tight situation. Just my opinion. You may not have seen it good enough to make the call and that is alright if that is the case.

Did you happen to ask him why he raised his arm at the end anyway. I would at least explain to him the mechanics on a last second situation. The arm does not go up unless it is a 3 pt try before the buzzer.

Other than that not much else you could do.

If the drive originated in your area, that's an easy one for you to take. If it didn't, but it's only a little out of your area and you have a good angle, you can grab it if you need to (especially with a young partner). That's why your assignor put two vets with the young guy, so you can help him out with the tough ones. You can't talk your partner into a foul.

Z

I don't agree that the T couldn't take this call if he was sure it was there. I can see why he didn't have a whistle since it looked like the L had something initially, but he could have come in with his fist up once he realized things were getting confusing.

thanks for the replies
 

It happened so quickly, trail was at FT line on other end.

Ball was inbounded to half court, whipped to lane and then shot.

I started at half court, I was expecting the game tying shot to be a three and wanted to get a good look at the clock.

Drive started on the other side of lane. I agree young official should have made the call.

What I would do differently is go to him, ask why he raised his hand and then let him make the decision.

Packed gym going crazy so I didn't have time to talk afterward, but I have a game with the guy next week, we will talk about what we could do differently then.

Thanks
David

Re: thanks for the replies
 

Eesh.

Tough situation.

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I'm not sure I would be asking anything, other than "do you have a foul?" and that is only if you are uncertain. Just get out of Dodge.

Here is what I read "you really could not tell", experienced partner was 3/4 of the court away is sure there was a foul, young official is in position to see the play and either raises hand at the trainwreck or raises hand at a foul but no whistle. You then directly ask the young oficial if there was a foul. He says no.

Sounds like you did your job, you didn't see a foul and didn't call one, experienced "eagle-eyed official" saw a play that ended in a trainwreck and didn't call a foul and probably shouldn't have. That leaves the young official and only he knows. I don't see any profit for you in questioning this play.

Re: thanks for the replies
 

I'd consider this transition coverage and C's secondary.

You had the last shot, and seeing the clock is not as important as seeing the shot, that is what the horn is for.

I'd say C NEEDS to make this call if they are sure they have a foul.

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In his original post David said he couldn't tell if there was a foul or not. While I agree someone probably needed to take this that someone was not David, who at the C wasn't sure what he had.

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This is why he was not sure.

"I started at half court, I was expecting the game tying shot to be a three and wanted to get a good look at the clock."

C needs to be in position to see the shot and not so focused on the clock, IMO.

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From what I read he was in good position for the quick pass down court and a 3 going up. Don't forget this play started at the endline. BTW someone has to be aware of the clock in this sitch to make sure it starts correctly.

Sounds like a tough way to end a game. In this situation, there's not much you can do but talk about it in the locker room. Can you imagine what a world of hurt you would have been in if you had talked the lead into a foul? The play was probably booted, but T is way to far out of position (not his fault by the way it sounds), C had nothing, and L had nothing. Talk about it in the room and move on to the next game.

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Being aware and being focused are very different things.

I read, I wanted a GOOD LOOK at the clock and was EXPECTING a 3 point shot. The pass to the lane and the contact that followed caught BOTH lead and center by surprise. The young official froze up and the vet was not in position to see the shot and help on the foul.

This has as much to do with C's breakdown as it does leads.

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This was exactly my thoughts as the C. Make sure the clock starts, be aware of the 3 and then everything else.

As the ball moved to front court and then the lane I moved up the court but as stated could not tell if a foul since the defense was between me and the player shooting.

Touch situation, we'll learn from it and go on.

My young official I'm sure will be prepared next time to make the correct call.

thanks
David

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"We'll learn from it" or "he'll learn from it?" You said you asked him if he had a foul. He said no. You said you couldn't see it. Why do you assume he wasn't prepared to make the correct call? If you didn't see it, you don't know. If you are sure it was a foul, maybe you should have gone and got it. You were 2 vets with a rookie.... don't put this all on him.

Z

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No it doesn't.

The C was doing his job. The L messed up.

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From what I read here the rook put his arm up with no whistle. I don't know about you, but to me asking if there's a foul on the play is absolutely required before they run off the court.

There is only one error that is known: The L raised his arm. The rest is speculation.

Yes but ...
 

It is, but it makes good for a little fodder on the internet board.

It also is good to hear what other people do, or if they have had the same situation how they handled it.

I know when I was a young official I was put in games that I did not belong and I learned the hard way, from my mistakes.

I know there were several times (I keep them in my book) that I did not make a call at the end of the game and I should have. But as I progressed, I learned that at the end of the game, you make certain that you have a foul and then you call it.

This year I have had several games where the R would quickly huddle the three officials and make a statement about a game situation. That is good officiating IMO.

Again thanks for the comments
David

Just skimmed the thread.

Maybe it has been brought up or implied...but the C has got to come over and be stronger.
You were put there to be a veteran...act like one.
Help the rookie out and talk him into the foul that you know happened.
Get your other partner...both you "veterans" bail him out.
Give the losing team a chance to tie it...they deserve it..have fun...go to OT.
Smile.
You got it right. :)

Exactly. From the original: "He releases just before horn sounds and I think he is fouled but really could not tell. Lead raises his arm like he has a foul but makes no call.

Coach wants the foul so I go to my lead and ask "did you have a foul" and he says no."

Possible explanations:

L anticipated a call. Heck, we've all raised an arm and then not called anything -- but it usually has happened in the middle fo the game and even if someone notices there's not much comment.

L heard the horn and instinctively raised his hand (maybe it was even an open hand). That's pretty common among newer officials.

Maybe with the long pass, L thought he now had the "last shot" responsibilities.

If it was an "elephant", go get it. If it wasn't, ask, then leave it alone.