Can someone tell me where I may purchase those possesion arrow indicators that attach to the bottom of the whistles?

Never knew those existed, but will be something I'd be interested in also. Since an AP screw-up a year or so ago, I've relied on moving extra whitsle from one pocket to the other after each AP throw-in. For example: Facing table, whistle in left pocket, ball going in direction of whistle.

This works great, especially for lower level games where the potential for lots of possession arrow situations is typically greater and the table crew may be less experienced.

At the JV/V level, I've rarely had a problem with it. The table crew is usually more experienced, which helps a lot. When a problem does pop up, the stack isn't usually so deep that I can't accurately recall the sequence since the last known correct application of the arrow.

I don't know about where you guys are....
 

...but in this area, we are not even allowed to do the whistle in the pocket thing let alone have something dangling from our whistle. Keep it in your head and get it right is the philosophy here.

Love2ref4Ever:

The item you you are describing is call the Flip Switch. The only place I ever saw them advertised was in Referee Magazine, and I have not seen them advertised in Referee for at least a couple of years. But I did buy two of them the first time I saw them advertised. They are compatible only with the full size Fox 40’s (sometimes called the Classic Fox 40).

I put them in two of my whistles and only use them for rec. league games, team camps, and such, where there are no AP Arrows. The Flip Switch does alter the sound slighty of the whistle.

I know that some officials move an extra whistle back and forth between pockets. Do not get into that habit. Work on remembering which way the AP Arrow is supposed to be.

MTD, Sr.

I've used a small rubberband (the type kids wear with braces) on my pinkie. Easy to move around, and no one can notice it.

Welcome to the forum.

Just wondering-would you let a player wear a small rubberband on their pinkie?

Welcome to the forum Long. What JR is trying to get at is that players aren't allowed to where "jewelry" and we aren't either. Wouldn't want to set a bad example by going out there and telling #33 he can wear his "Live Strong" bracelet, yet you've got a rubber band on.

I use a Hickory Farms Beefstick in my pocket for a possession indicator.

I wear a wedding band to officiate, yet wouldn't allow it on a player.

Doesn't this just tell everyone that YOU are the......nah, I'm not going there.

Is this a girls game? Yowza!

Is that the little subby ones or the big 3-footers.

Then you've got a snack after the game to go with your adult beverage!

What a great idea Mark!;)

I wear my cross when I officiate. Of course, it's under my shirt, and I don't think anyone can notice it.

I wear my wedding band too but I do take my Livestrong bracelet off. For what it's worth.

LOL That beefstick comment is a classic...

I use my cellphone
 

I pull out my phone, call my home machine and leave a message. Next Joint Possesion, I just call my home machine and retrieve messages and get it right every time. Works great.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

Quote:

Is that the little subby ones or the big 3-footers.

It's a 3 footer. Gets quite a rise out of the female coaches. I have to work to make sure it doesn't get a rise out of me.

BTW - there's one male coach who likes it. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I AM AMAZED!
 

I am amazed at how so many quality officials kicked this call.

Instead of moving the whistle from pocket to pocket, I have used one of those small black sock hangers that come with (mostly) dress socks. It clips easily over the rim of the top of my pants (or a belt if your wearing one), stays put and is less obvious than reaching into your pockets all night long. It does not interfer or poke when you run and can be moved while in motion easier than the whistle in the pocket. I haven't used one for two season or so as I have added remembering the arrow direction to my game (after 20 years something has to sink in) - or was it I was getting to old to remember to switch it....I can't recall.........all I know is indecision may or may not be one of my problems.

Scared To Ask!
 

I am scared to ask how do some of yall keep track of time-outs!

Beef Stick?
 

Hey Ref! Is that a beef stick in your pocket or are you just happy to see me???

I didn't realize that the rubber band would cause such a stir. I was told this trick by a retired NBA official from my area. Its not a large noticeable band, just a small out of the way one on the pinkie that can be easily moved on the fly when no one is watching. A whole lot easier then trying to dig into those front pockets on the beltless pants.

What do you do if you drop that bad boy? Finding a light brown colored mini rubberband on a light brown colored floor is probably harder then finding a clear contact lense. Now you're screwed. Use the whistle or if your area says no whistle, do what I do, chapstick in the pocket :-) I find that in JV/V games, the table is dialed in.

I talk to myself the entire game, especially during time-outs. Most officials lounge mentally and physically during this time, but I look at the time, points, posession arrows, fouls, review the last few fouls called in the game, think about what kind of play to expect coming out of the time out, what shooters have the hot hand, what players are foul happy, and anything else I can think about that is game related.

That is helping me big time, even with something as simple as the possession arrow.

I've started to keep track of it in my head but just as a back-up I use the back left pocket on my pants. If the button is closed the ball goes to the right of the table. If it's open, the ball goes to the left. Easy to change, don't have to worry about losing anything and I'm guessing few people would notice whether my pocket is buttoned.

Pos Ctrl Whistles
 

Reply to very old posts, but found this thread through a search and thought this would help. For Fox 40 fans, here's an attachment for your whistle:
Basketball Possession Switch - Fits in Whistle: Ump-Attire.com

For a "built-in" version, try this: PC 50 Whistle

And yes, I agree learning to keep it in your head is best, but I'm great and keeping balls/strikes in my head in baseball but I still use a clicker.

You have more pitches in a game then you do a change in the arrow. And what do you do when you forget to change the device? Are you going to argue with your partner(s) you have the proper way because your whistle says different? Or would it be better to note the time and situation with everyone involved? ;)

Peace

Again, totally agree with you--memory is best. I rarely look at my clicker in baseball, and rarely forget to click it either. I like having a backup, especially when I do my son's elementary games (as a volunteer, and solo) and there's 10 held balls per game!

If you use the first one, I am told, it will change the sound of your whistle.

I'm lucky I don't have many held balls during a game so I'm able to track it fairly easily.

You might have 10 pitches at an individual batter and over 300 in a game. To me that is not the same thing. Ten held balls in a game is not unusual and not hard to remember when you changed the last one. And you have a scorer that is supposed to be keeping track too. And even in baseball there are those that do not advocate or use indicators for pitches. I just think in basketball it is a bigger crutch and often a mistake is made by officials who are only relying on the device and not their memory or the scorer that is required to keep track of these things like other things in the game.

Peace

At that level, where the table can often be suspect, it might be useful. There are other ways to track it as well.

At (almost) anything higher, it's definitely not needed, imo.

Dexter555, welcome to the Forum.

Clicker?

Mark- curious why you say not to get into this habit? Just based on look/appearance of switching the whistle??

Thanks, Rob! I've lost half a day of productivity reading threads--great stuff and I'm learning a lot!

A ball/strike/outs indicator--hand held with dials that most baseball umpires use.

Just curious, What's your state or assigner's reasoning for not allowing a whistle it the pocket? I was actually initially taught years ago that you NEED to have a spare, some people put it in their pocket, some in their sock.

Similar question, what is wrong with that habit? I've actually stopped doing it myself, but not for any reason except I just didn't.

Because for one it's frowned upon, and secondly it's really not tough to remember which team has the possession, and do that in your good ol noggin. If you manage your game properly there are many times a quarter that you will be reviewing to yourself score, game time, shot clock, possession arrow.

I've been trying to get in a habit on fouls to remember 4 numbers :eek:. Player committing the foul, player fouled, time on shot clock and seconds left on game clock. It may go something like this.

White 44, 33, 12, 57.

I know white 44 committed the foul on RED/BLUE/WHATEVER 33, with 12 seconds on the SC and 57 seconds on the game clock. I also keep a running tally of jump balls and time outs. Can't always trust the table, or my partner to have this info.

You need to have a whistle. You don't* need to switch it on every held ball.

* - I recognize that there might be exceptions for the 4 kids games in a row, and that it's tough to remember for newer officials -- but it's a habit you should drop as soon as you can.

Some see it as indicative of a newbie, not much different than back pedaling (albeit less unsafe) in high school games. I'll do it in summer games where having an arrow is a luxury.

I don't see a problem with tracking the possession arrow in your pocket and have done it off and on for years. I can think of very few games where the AP arrow was not questioned at least once requiring partner and I to discuss/detrrmine. But it is better topractice.doing it by memory as its the best practice in this situation.

I do not like using a rubber band or other outwardly visible marker. Say you have it on your right hand to indicate an AP but decide the ball should be awarded in the other direction. It could give fans and coaches something to flip out about, especially in those youth games where they're just feetfrom the court.

If your going to track it, then track it discretly.

why so complicated?
 

Over the years I have seen and heard many different ways that officials use to keep track of the arrow, and often wonder "why not just look at the table and make sure they switch it?" (or DON'T switch it on the rare occasion when that happens) Secondly, for those of you using the "tricks" to keep arrow, ever have a sitch where the scorebooks and arrow indicate possession one way and you have another? At that point you need to talk to table crew, but if you watch the arrow after the AP throw ins, you can catch any problems when they occur, and BEFORE the next AP opportunity. Less chance for someone to make a big deal out of it.

And that is really my point. The table arrow (not the scoreboard) is the official device. If you do not agree because you have a whistle in a certain pocket, then what? At some point you will have to know what took place. Why not just do that from the beginning?

Peace

I have seen table crews switch the arrow on their own accord for whatever reason.

And that is why you should "know" your mind. Devices are only as good as the person using them. ;)

Peace

I carry my own arrow (I know, I'm a geek). Most NYC schools don't have an AP arrow at the table. They all tell me it's for financial reasons. When i tell them how I made mine that blows the money thing out of the water.

It's one of the blocks my kids used to play with when they were little. I printed "POSS -->" on a sheet of paper and "<---POSS" on another, attached them to the block with clear tape and there you have it. The "POSS--->" and "<---POSS" mirror each other so the table crew sees the same direction we see on the court.

And I'll say it again: I know, I'm a geek. But it works.

Yep. Table (properly) switches the arrow, but the book forgets to write it down. A few minutes later, the book notices that the arrow is pointing the "wrong" way and has it switched, during play, and none of the officials notices it. Now, at the next held ball, there's a conflict.

I had trouble keeping the arrow in my head until I read a suggestion here years ago. You are counting a lot during the game. When you count use the color of the next possession. For example "1...blue ball...2...blue ball..." When the arrow changes, change to the other color.

Works grear for me and I can remember. You mileage may vary...

2/17/14 Ok St/Baylor
 

If any of you watched the Ok St/Baylor game last night (2/17/14)...

Did you see what Whitehead did after the jump ball to start OT? :)

No...what did he do?

I'm going to have to try BatteryPowered's suggestion.

I have a great method of helping keep track of the AP arrow. It is called " remembering".

If white has the ball to start, I remember black gets the next one.

Works like a charm!

Moved his spare whistle from his left pocket to his right pocket to match up with the arrow.

You're A Better Man Than I Am, Gunga Din (Rudyard Kipling) ...
 

I would guess that you don't work too many girls middle school games, the games where there is no arrow at the table, and a million held balls. Wait? Did I say a million held balls? That's ridiculous, and impossible. I really meant to say a billion held balls.

One more reason not to work those games. As if that really had to be stated.

Peace

No arrow at the table no start the game. That is the direction from our association.

About a month ago we had a freshman game that didn't have an arrow. The lady running the table used a white ink pen that had a black cap to keep track of it as well as the book. She would point for us when there was a held ball as most of the time the pen wasn't visible to us.

I do not care what they use, just as long as it is something at the table that can point in a direction.

And no, the scoreboard is not good enough.

Also the book should be keeping track as well. So there are enough checks and balances other than using a silly whistle in your pocket.

Peace

I agree. The pen worked without problem this night, just wasn't quite as high tech but functional just the same.

Many schools have that little display with the arrow on it (it is yellow). All you need is something and that should be good enough. And the rules mandate that something be at the table, not anywhere else.

Peace

A simple solution.
 

I have a tremendous idea on how to avoid the arrow issues, and not have to suffer the gross indignity and mortal shame of changing rocks from one pocket to the other, unbuttoning pocket flaps, dealing with clueless table personnel, or chanting blue ball during every throw-in. Obviously such actions detract from our stature and we must never do such undignified things, even tough it makes it absolutely clear to everyone in the building that we're making sure we get it right.

Here's what we'll do. We'll get the two players most directly involved and send them to the center circle or to the foul line circle (whichever is closer) and we'll toss the ball in the air, and determine possession through an actual athletic endeavor, rather than my-turn, your-turn.

Not only does it solve the issue, we won't have listen to the holier-than-thou brigade, which thinks we should keep a play from 10 minutes earlier in our heads while presumably concentrating on what is happening in front of us.

The jump ball is a horrible system. Let's give an unfair advantage after a tie up to the person who's TALLER. To me, the AP always made more sense than this.

Quarters?

Ball stuck in the rim?

Double foul while an unsuccessful try is in flight?

I'm with Rich even if these questions get answered, but they would need to be answered if you're going to go back to the archaic "jump ball" system.

Fire Up The Flux Capacitor ...
 

Same thing that we did thirty years ago. Jump ball. Jump ball. Jump ball. Usually with any two opponents, usually the tallest, or the best jumpers. We may have had the double foulers jump against each other.

Maybe we should also start using basketballs with laces, go back to peach baskets, and wear black belts to hold our pants up?

And How Many Say, Incorrectly, "Hold Your Spots" ???
 

And do more than just a few of you (not me, and rookies don't count) devote any more than a just few minutes of annual study to the various jump ball restrictions since we only see one (usually) of these every game? How many of us (including me) just sit back, as the umpire, and hope that nothing "weird" happens, or if something "weird" happens, it something very obvious, like a jumper tapping the ball on the way up?

Is That You Dr. Naismith ???
 

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.: Why are you posting under amusedofficial's username?

We don't obsess over the jump ball provisions. I know the rules quite well, but I'll admit that I'm in no hurry to blow back a marginal toss or even a marginal "got it on the way up" violation. Especially in regulation. The other team is going to get 2-of-the-next-3 after all. I don't say anything on a jump - I ask the captains if they're ready, hit my whistle, and toss the ball.

It used to aggravate me as a guard (back in the day) when I'd get in there and tie up a much taller player and be rewarded by having to jump against him. I had no chance. Why is *that* system fair?

(I liked the thinking when NCAAM (I think) experimented with giving the ball to the defense on every tie up, but then actual game play exposed worse issues in that system and they abandoned it.)

For NCAA-M, I agree...for that 7th grade girls game? The arrow is a godsend.

I Don't Want to Be The Umpire, I Want To Be The Referee, And I Want To Toss ...
 

Oh. I'm not talking about those violations. Those are the easy, and obvious, ones. I'm talking about movement of the non jumpers, those on the circle (within three feet of the circle), and those off the circle (more than three feet away from the circle). Can either group move, and how can they move, when, or slightly before, the official is ready to toss? Can either group move, and how can they move, when the official is tossing? Can either group move, and how can they move, after the toss? Can either group move, and how can they move, after the tap? Can either group move, and when can they move, into an unoccupied space on the circle? Can either group move, and when can they move, into an occupied space on the circle? Can either group move, and when can the move, to within three feet behind an opponent?

Even some of the easy ones can be missed. I know a few officials, some veterans, that aren't 100% sure about two handed taps, and how many taps, by a single jumper, are legal. A few aren't 100% sure when all of these restrictions end.

Maybe these are easy questions on a written test (not for me, on a closed book test), but in a real game, when we may be the umpire only half of the time, and we only have a split second to make these calls? Maybe these calls end up being a mental coin toss? Wait? That gives me an idea.

Flip
 

I use one - they come in very handy for time outs and who has the ball coming out as well!

Flip 58 Possession Switch - Special! - Referee Equimpent and Uniforms