Well, I finally had one.

About 20 games into my first season. A T on a coach.

It was a varsity girls game. But it was 2A at a small private school. Our state requires 3 man for varsity unless the schools agree to 2, which sometimes happens for 2A and 1A schools to save the money. I hadnt worked a varsity game for real before (I filled in on a 3 man crew for two varsity scrimmages). But I got this one because the teams had agreed to a 2 man crew. Plus, the quality of the game was about a 4A girls JV game with maybe each team having one better shooter.

It was a scrappy and close game. We called it tight early. Home coach was yelling all first half. Between first and second quarters my partner and I huddled briefly and my partner said with a smile "I dont think White's coach wants to stay for the whole game," referring to his conduct. He was the R so I said I'd defer to how he wanted to handle it. If he wants me to ingore it, I ignore it. He said we'd keep an eye on him. White coach in 2nd quarter is still yelling, but not so bad.

By the way, its a small gym and the visitor is from far away so they didnt have many fans. The crowd is hugely a home crowd.

We have a good first half and we talk about the home coach at our halftime in the lockerroom. We agree any more significant stuff from the home coach and we T him. If it is mixed with coaching his girls, let it go. But if it is just yelling, tag him.

3rd quarter. Coach is still griping and commenting, but nothing horrible. One time he gets on the floor a bit and I stop sign him and he backs up.

Later in the 3rd it happens. Home (his team) is up by 2 (21-19, in fact). I'm Trail, my partner Lead in Home's front court. White takes a shot, miss, no call from my partner. I slid down to watch rebounding action and I didnt see anythign worth calling eitehr. I was turning slightly to head back, transitioning to new Lead when Home coach comes onto the floor, jumping, yelling "how is that not a foul, how is that not a foul!" I am literally 2 feet from the scorer's table (since I was table side, Trail transitioning to new lead). Tweet! Fist up. I see my partner is 1 second behind me with his whistle and fist up. I crack down the "T" signal. Turn to the table. "Technical foul, white coach, blue two shots and the ball." I walk to center, confirm with partner. He says I was going to call the same thing. I go opposite table to stay away from trouble. My partner administers the two and then I handle throw in.

Blue converts both freethrows, tying the score 21-21. Blue scores on the possession following the inbound to take the lead 23-21 and never relinquishes the lead, winning in the end by about 6.

Two officials watching (who were there for the 6:30 boys varsity game) loved the T and said they would have T'd him up sooner.

The home coach sat the rest of the game and stood twice. I thought about T'ing him for that but didnt (and neither did my partner).

Despite getting yelled at by the partisan crowd all night (which is to be expected, and is kind of fun :) ) NOBODY yelled about that T. I think he definately bought it and nobody really disagreed.

So, did I wait too long? What would you guys do?

Oh, and I hate to admit it, but I really loved doing it. :) I didnt hold it against his team, but I have to admit, I let him hang himself and then was happy to bang him when he gave me the clear shot to do so. Is it wrong to enjoy it? :)

I've had a few silly Ts (wrong number, book didnt catch until girl comes in; 6 girls on court--literally after I administer throw in, coach tells girl to "go get in" and rather than go to scorer and wait she runs on the court, I couldnt believe it, I had to call the 6 people on the court). But this is my first one directly on a head coach.

What is a "normal" per game average for T'ing a head coach directly?

Clark

Clark,
It sounds like you did just fine. Some may say that they would have issued the T earlier, but it is hard to tell since we weren't there and YOU and your partner were. It does sound like a little earlier could have been justified though from the amount of conversation you and your partner had about the home coach. That much talk about him tells me that he was detracting from the game.
You definitely need to take care of business, but you don't want to go looking for him. He made it easy for you the way it worked out.

It is hard to give an average number for this. I'd guess 1 per every 10 games, but it truly depends on the area, the coaches, and your tolerance.
PS White Pine at Needles?
PPS Welcome to the club! :)



[Edited by Nevadaref on Jan 30th, 2005 at 05:07 AM]

Just a couple of comments on the above:

I do not believe that any partner would tell you to ignore verbal abuse. I could understand your wanting to defer to him (as you state you only have about 20 games under your belt), however, don't feel the need to do so.

Coaches EARN T's, we don't assess anything that they didn't deserve (hopefully not). I have sometimes felt that I would eat a little bit more than normal in a close game. The feeling was that I didn't want to hurt the team. Sometimes a warning in that situation will go along way. "Coach, I've heard enough."

You followed correct procedure in going opposite the table. You not only stayed away from trouble, you possibly kept the coach in the game.

The varsity officials, and any other official, have their own tolerance level. Obviously, they have a shorter rope to burn.

I think one would have to be in the game to know if you waited to long. Did you ask your partner if you waited to long? Again, each official has their own tolerance level.

Are some of these "silly Ts" avoidable? Was the book checked prior to the game? Did you count the players on the court, prior to administering? Preventative officiating may have prevented "silly Ts."

I don't believe there is a normal amount of Ts!

Enjoy your first season. Develop your own "thick or thin" skin and remeber, coaches EARN their Ts!

Clark,

You did right! Good job, there's no reason to take that crap and it sounds like you handled it well. One thing and I'm sure you know this, however the coach is allowed to stand (briefly) to applaud one of his players for an extraordinary play. Good job!

Clark there is no average per game for most of us...unless you are Ref18!:D

For me in the last 5 seasons I've called 3 T's on coaches...2 of those were on the assistant, the second before I finished reporting the first. My partners have called three, all on the head coach.

My rule of thumb is handle the situation early and don't leave yourself in the dilemma of should I call it late in a close game.

You will learn how to talk to coaches in answering their questions, and how to handle them making statements. You will develop that line that they cannot cross and the line to warn if they are approaching this line.

Whenever you do talk with coaches the less you say the better. Always stay calm and professional. Don't make threats. Don't warn TWICE, if you have drawn the line don't erase and re-draw it. If you might have missed it or it was close don't BS them, tell them that it was close or you might have missed it. If you did not see it, it's not so hard to say you'll watch closer for it.

Remember, all coaches just want to be heard, so acknowledging and addressing the issue can head off a lot of trouble. The ones that can't handle your way of addressing the issue will T themselves.

Good Job
 

That was an excellent T. One way you can tell is by the fact that the coach behaved as soon as it was called. Good Job.

A T is a part of basketball, it's good to get it into your game this early. A lot of newer officials I've seen let the coaches walk all over them.

It was really good how you gave him the stop sign and then enforced your warning, a lot of officials just warn and keep warning.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Maybe this is twisted, but I feel like a "real ref" now. :)

As for the "average" I asked about above, I didnt mean to say I think there should be some average number but more to get feedback along the lines of "I go a whole season with no coach Ts" or "I wind up whacking about 3 a season." Or "it took me 40 games before I whacked my first." Stuff like that.

About the silly Ts, the one I described about the girl just coming onto the court after a throw in. Not preventable.

The other one (wrong number) was at a tournament which wasnt worked by normal scorers/timers from our association and was done by volunteers (students). I checked the book. Looked fine. 12 and 10 (or whatever it was) on the court warming up, 12 and 10 in the book. I asked the coaches at 10 minutes "both of you good with your entries in the book." Got "yep" from both. The real problem was that it should have been caught when the girl first reported, giving the coach the chance to not play her. But the book didnt notice until I called a foul on "white 32" (or whatever). Book gives a horn and summons me over. "There is no white 32 in the book." I go back on the court, ask the fouler to spin around to see her numbers, confirmed white 32. My partner had come over, I said "I dont think I have a choice on this one." He nodded. Whistle, T, because they were student scorers I gave more detail: "administrative technical on white, charged to the team but not to the coach, counts towards the team foul count, red gets 2 shots and the ball." Then as my partner went to start administration I went to white coach who was at the end of the bench and said "now is the time to double check your numbers and make any other fixes you see since you get one T regardless of the number of fixes and you arleady got your 1 T." His girls (it was a girls JV game) were already ribbing him about some promise he had made to them to never get a T and how he now had to do something (dont know what but they seemed to think it was hillarious).

Clark

Newbie,
You were a real ref long before the T. I know some guys who enjoy giving the T a little too much. It's a part of the game. It's necasary. I've given plenty, but I always think it's sad that a grown man or woman can't show more self-control or respect for authority than what you described from this coach. It was a good call on your part, especially after showing the patience that you did. Also, I have found that I always felt better leaving a game after giving a deserved T than wondering all the way home why I didn't whack some jerk.

Saturday night we T'd a girls varsity coach and it won the game for them. In the first half, her team was playing defense with their hands, foul count got bad. The coach did nothing but worry about what we were doing (I had 3 man with 2 very experienced and good officials). Early in the second quarter, one of my partners heard enough and took care of her. After that, she had to actually coach and her team came from a 10 point deficit to win in OT. Maybe (I doubt it) the coach will realize that she's better off coaching her players.

Clark - congratulations on no longer being a maiden. Take a cookie out of petty cash.

After your first coach ejection, take two cookies.

Speaking of first T's, my initial one was pretty funny. I had worked a season of JH ball and got into a kids tournament ran by a very good assignor that trains officials for his IM program and then eventually sends the better ones out to do HS games. I had known most of the officials through friends for a while. During the games officials that weren't working would run the clock and stand around and BS during other games. I had about 5 officials at the table. A coach is mad about a foul call, grabs his chair with two hands and jumps, slamming himself and his chair on the ground. I calmly hit my whistle, stuck my fist in the air and called my first T. I was trying to be as professional as possible, but then all 5 officials at the table gave me a standing ovation. Pretty hard not to crack up.

I'm hoping in my first season I can cover all the major calls/situations. Here is the breakdown so far:

* 1 direct T on a coach.
* 2 other team Ts.
* 1 double foul.
* Several player control fouls. Boy, those are fun.
* 2 intentional fouls so far.
* Warning for breaking the plane by defensive player on inbound (no T for it yet though).
* FT violations (but none on the shooter yet).
* 1 good funny comment to an assistant coach that made him laugh and sit down*
* Only 1 foul on a rebound so far, which tells me I need to do a better job when trail of stepping down and watching rebounding action since god knows there have to have been more than 1 foul during a rebound (though most of my games have been girls JV).
* I've been the R. Tossed ball, checked books, talked to Cs and coaches.
* Throw in violation where not touched by player on floor, gave ball to opponent at throw in spot (not so much a unique call, but I was happy I got the ball location right for the throw in).
* several player DQs, though my first time I didnt do things in the right order.

* No multiple fouls yet.
* No fouls on a 3 point try yet.
* No flagrant personals or Ts.
* No ejection of a player or coach (though I came close on a player, but I changed my mind as I put my fist up and made it an intentional rather than a flagrant).
* No spot throw in violations yet for moving from spot.

So that is how it stands so far after 20 games in my first season.

Man, this is a lot of fun :)

Clark

*funny comment: in a girls JV game the assistant was standing up and coaching while the head coach was just a bump on a log. I asked my partner (R) at a TO about that. He said everyone knows the assistant is the coach and the head coach just took the job for the money and doesnt know jack about coaching. He told me to let it go. "I said OK, you are the R and I'm a newbie." Personally, I didnt like that but I went with my R. So I am lead table side in the assistant coach's front court and he is riding me on a call I made last possession saying "that was a bad call." While transitioning to new trail (no press, slow action) I say to the assistant "no, a bad call would be T'ing you for being up and talking to me, my call was a good call." He laughed and sat down.

Clark you forgot the "MONEY" calls:

Pushoff by offense on a fronting player during the entry pass.

The backside hold by the defender on an entry pass.

The subtile push in the back on a high entry pass that keeps the post from catching the ball.

Offball grabs and chucks on cutters.

Player runs through or throws the screener.

The inside arm grab and pin.

And the MONEY of all money calls, an illegal screen with the ball in your primary.;)

Thanks for the list!

OK, here we go:

Clark you forgot the "MONEY" calls:

Pushoff by offense on a fronting player during the entry pass.

--havent had one, becuase I have had mostly JV girls games and havent had much fronting of a post player. But having played Center I would definately call that bad boy!

The backside hold by the defender on an entry pass.

--Yep. Called that one is a boys JV game.

The subtile push in the back on a high entry pass that keeps the post from catching the ball.

--Not quite. I called a push on a high entry pass, but the push wasnt in the back (ie arms on back) it was lower leg rooting by the defender trying to push the post player out of her spot. So I guess mine wasnt so subtle, but I got one. I almost rang up a girl for forearm in the back last Saturday on a high post entry pass, but the pass never came. I saw the arm in the back and the girl on the wing motioned a pass but didnt pass it. I was ready.

Offball grabs and chucks on cutters.

--I need to be better on this. I have warned two or three times "hands off on the cuts" but I have yet to ring one up. Most of the time it is the post player ball side screening away low setting a crappy pick on the opponent on the opposite post to free the opposite post offensive player to come across low to ball side. The girls dont set the best picks so hands get involved. But every time after warning it has cleaned up. But this is on my short list of things I need to be better about watching for.

Player runs through or throws the screener.

--finally got one last Saturday.

The inside arm grab and pin.

--Nope. Again, with mostly girls JV games I havent really seen this. But in the two boys JV games I have done I am sure it was happening and I wasnt seeing it (since I used to do it at that level :) )

And the MONEY of all money calls, an illegal screen with the ball in your primary.

--again, just got my first one this saturday and i felt good that i got it. but it was kind of easy (as compared to the situation you are describing as money) since the illegal screen was set next to girl with the ball, so it was easy to watch the ball and to also see the off ball screen. I presume you are saying this is a money call because it is hard to both watch the ball in your primary and to see illegal screening action. Frankly, there was no good reason to have set that other screen so that is what drew my attention to it. I saw the girl coming to screen and thought it was for the dribbler, then when she set it on the high post defender, not the defender on the dribbler, I noticed it and saw her set it and then push the girl out.

This one was actually a funny story. The crowd was really vocal and all homers. No visitors. Ball handler A1 gets by her girl B1 while teammate A2 sets an illegal screen on another defender B2 at high post. I whistle it, fist up, say "blue ball" to my partner and indicate out of bounds. Guy in crowd who had been yelling all night goes "terrible call" thinking I called offensive on the dribbler I guess because I said "blue ball" to my partner after I whistled. When I reported I said "white, A2, illegal screen, blue ball." The guy goes, "oh, that was a good call." It was kind of funny.

Clark

Reguardless of what you will hear from MTD on precise language from the book, vocalize, "Illegal screen," when you make that call.

Contact, whistle, fist, "Illegal screen, blue here or # is my shooter," go to table, "Color, #, push/block, spot or FTs."

I see officials making this call and nobody knows what they have. Vocalize at the spot what you have illegal screen, offense, hook, block, hold, hit, push, body, got them in the head, etc. Then report by the book.;)

Thanks. That makes alot of sense.

Clark

Newbie...i started a thread to you re: our apparent things in common...original title.."hey newbie"

Amen!

Am I right about why that call is money? Is it because you are watching the ball in your primary and you see the screen off the ball? Is that why you guys call that a money call?

Not so quick, rookie
 

:D Your not a "real ref" until you have had game management remove the home coach! :D

You got it.

Newb --

Your list didn't include

A bad toss by either your partner or you

Overtime

Last second shot

Off-ball foul during a shot

Correctable error

Thanks!!!! Great additions! Keep them coming!

Unfortuntately, I dont fare well on this one:

A bad toss by either your partner or you

Yeah, I had a bad toss to an inbounder. Ick. And I threw a long curving low bounce pass to my partner across the court with spin on it to make it go low and hook back around some girls. Unfortunately, it didnt have the right spin and didnt hook back enough to get to my partner. A cheerleader had to get it. :) If you mean toss to start the game, I have only been R 4 times and I liked my tosses all 4 times. Tonite, my partner threw it waaaaaaay too high for a girls JV game.

Overtime

Nope. I almost had it once. I put the girl on the line for 2 and she made one and missed one. 2 would have tied it.

Last second shot

Several. One game I had two--a 3 at half and a 3 at end of 3rd. Tonite, actually, I had a 3 to end the first half. But I have not had a buzzer beater to win it all.

Off-ball foul during a shot

Yes, if this counts: I called a foul on an offensive teammate of the ballhandler who was driving in for a shot and who did in fact shoot. I called the off ball foul on her teammate who set an illegal screen. But the foul was before the shot.

Correctable error

Yes, about to inbound to wrong team and fixed it. Real cheesy coach was always trying to manipulate us all night, putting the wrong people to the line and after timeouts trying to have his girl stand there to get the ball. I handed to girl for red, then blew whistle and corrected. I have also had a corrected scoring mistake that was fixed as a result of a discussion with a coach when he called a time out. And I appropriately did not charge him for the timeout after we fixed the error.

Thanks for help with my list.

Clark

Okay, good. How would you handle a DEFENSIVE foul (oops sorry, MTD, another bad vocab word!) in the same sitch? With and without a buzzer; before, during or after continuous motions starts; made or missed basket.



Neither of these is a correctable error. They are fix-able mistakes, and you handled them correctly, i think, aothough I'm not sure about not charging the time out. But the only correctable errors are listed in 2-10. Be sure you check it out before your next game, cuz now that I've brought it up, you're guaranteed to face it soon!

Why would we be wanting Clark to have a correctable error?

Clark, know the rule and I hope you NEVER have to use it.:D

I didn't say I wanted it. He's the one making the list of major situations. I think this is one of them.

His list was for calls he's made or needs to make, I prefer to dwell on the positive.:D

I agree I do need to better undestand the correctable error rule and what it applies to.

I dont mind adding it to the list. It is certainly something of major significance that I might have to deal with. Like a personal foul during a dead ball that my buddy had tonite. I want to check that in the rule book. He called the T. He and I are going to read the rule and talk about it.

Its midnight, I will answer the defensive foul question tomorrow, but I think I know most of it. If defensive foul on peson off ball (not shooter) new rule clarification means the airborne shooter rule/continuous motion applies if a foul by the defense even if by a defender not on the shooter.

So....

Presuming foul by defensive player B2 on opponent A2 while A1 is shooting (and that no one is fouling A1, the shooter):

Before continuous motion, basket made: No shot, COMMON foul on B2, ball out of bounds unless bonus.
Before continuous motion, miss: same.

During CM, basket is made: Basket counts, call a COMMON foul on B2 (because not on the shooter), no FTs unless bonus.
During CM, basket is missed: No basket (obviously), call a COMMON foul on B2, no FTs unless bonus.

I dont know what you mean as the difference between "during CM" and "after CM starts". If its all during CM, then see above. If you mean the foul by B2 happens after the continuous motion has been completed, then it would be:

After CM completed, basket is made: The shot goes in and counts, now the ball is dead because of the made field goal. If the foul is before the ball is live again, the foul on B2 could now be a T (if intentional or flagrant during a dead ball) and it is 2 and the ball for A. If not enough for a T, and the ball is dead, then the contact is ignored I think. (is that right?)
After CM completed, shot is missed: Then the foul is probably during rebounding action and it is just a personal on B2 and no FTs unless bonus.

Ball to A in all instances.

I dont get what you mean by with or without buzzer. Sorry :)

That was hard but really useful. I did it without the book so please be kind if I am wrong.

How did I do?

Clark

No wonder you're a lawyer, and I bet you're a good one, too. Looks pretty good to me, but I may be wrong about one or two of the details. "With or without the buzzer" means a last second shot where time expires somewhere in the process of the continuous motion/off-ball foul/made or missed shot.

Oh, I see what you mean about the buzzer. I get it. Duh. I cant believe I didnt see what you meant.

Has to be released by buzzer. Shooting motion started but ball not released before buzzer means shot doesnt count, right?

Clark

At one of our Association meetings we had a panel discussion with 8 head coaches. One thing they said was that we should call more T's on them as they deserved them. They felt that sometimes one coach will gain an advantage by creeping out of the box, excessive complaints on calls and verbal intimidation. I feel I have as thick a skin as anyone and can listen to a coach's politely pleading his case. I had a JV boys coach who talked constantly but was polite. He commented that I had missed a call - which I may have as I was quickly screened by a 6'5" player. I told him, I'm sorry I got screened and he understood. Later in the same game A1 yelled at me to "get in the game ref' as I was about to present the ball to B1 on the baseline for a spot throw in. I said "How's this" as I T'd him.

We had a discussion about this about a year ago, I think. Some guys just say "That way", others do as you recommend, my partner last night just said "Illegal!"

We pretty much agreed that the correct phrasing is "Offense!" :)