Player Control vs Offensive Foul??

[rviotto13]

Is there a difference between the two?? I heard there is but cannot figure it out.

Any help or am i crazy??

Thanks
RV

[JugglingReferee]

A player control foul is a foul committed by the player currently in control of the ball. It is a personal foul only, and does count towards elimination. They do not yield a bonus situation. The player who was fouled does not get to shoot foul shots if his team is in the bonus.

There is no definition in the rulebook for an offensive foul.

The common ways in which the term offensive foul is used is:

- another term for a player control foul, or
- a term to mean a foul by the offense, ie. the team currently in "team possession"

The hiccup comes when some use offensive foul to mean a PC foul, where no shots are taken. Then others use it to mean a foul where shots are taken (an illegal screen).

[SF]

An offensive foul is a foul committed by a player of the team that is on offense.

A player control foul is a type of offensive foul committed by a player that has control of the ball.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by rviotto13
Is there a difference between the two?? I heard there is but cannot figure it out.

Any help or am i crazy??

Thanks
RV

By definition, NCAA Men's/Women's and FIBA rules:

A team control foul is a common foul committed by a player when his team is in control of the ball and by extension a player control foul is a team control foul committed by a player in control of the ball.


By definition in NFHS rules there are only player conttrol fouls.


The only rules code that has offensive fouls is the NBA/WNBA code and I am not sure if it have the term player control in its rules. Maybe Chuck can answer this question.

MTD, Sr.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
The only rules code that has offensive fouls is the NBA/WNBA code and I am not sure if it have the term player control in its rules.

Hey, MARK!! I've got news for you, every rules code has offensive fouls. They may be called personal fouls, team control fouls, player control fouls, and there may be other terms, but every code has offensive fouls. The NBA/WNBA are the only codes that dub them "Offensive Fouls."

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Hey, MARK!! I've got news for you, every rules code has offensive fouls. They may be called personal fouls, team control fouls, player control fouls, and there may be other terms, but every code has offensive fouls. The NBA/WNBA are the only codes that dub them "Offensive Fouls."

Juulie:

Please show me the definition of "offensive foul" in Rule 4 of the NFHS and NCAA rules codes and Rule 6 of the FIBA rules code. If you can show me that definition in any of those three rules codes I will donate my next game fee to the charity of choice in your name.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. My next game is tonight: A boys' H.S. jr. varsity game with a game fee of $35.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
[/B]

Please show me the definition of "offensive foul" in Rule 4 of the NFHS and NCAA rules codes and Rule 6 of the FIBA rules code. If you can show me that definition in any of those three rules codes I will donate my next game fee to the charity of choice in your name.

[/B][/QUOTE]How come I didn't get the same offer when you tried to say that there was no NFHS rule covering blarges?

If you wanna make it retroactive, donate the $35 to the Special Olympics.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Please show me the definition of "offensive foul" in Rule 4 of the NFHS and NCAA rules codes and Rule 6 of the FIBA rules code. If you can show me that definition in any of those three rules codes I will donate my next game fee to the charity of choice in your name.

[/B]

How come I didn't get the same offer when you tried to say that there was no NFHS rule covering blarges?

If you wanna make it retroactive, donate the $35 to the Special Olympics. [/B][/QUOTE]


Because by rule you can't. Either the defender has obtained/established a legal guarding position or he has not. But the Special Olympics is very worthy cause.

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

[/B]

How come I didn't get the same offer when you tried to say that there was no NFHS rule covering blarges?

If you wanna make it retroactive, donate the $35 to the Special Olympics. [/B][/QUOTE]


Because by rule you can't. Either the defender has obtained/established a legal guarding position or he has not. But the Special Olympics is very worthy cause.

[/B][/QUOTE]By rule you can't have a blarge? Casebook play 4.19.7SitC. That's the pertinent rule covering blarges.

Pay up.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Juulie:

Please show me the definition of "offensive foul" in Rule 4 of the NFHS and NCAA rules codes and Rule 6 of the FIBA rules code. If you can show me that definition in any of those three rules codes I will donate my next game fee to the charity of choice in your name.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. My next game is tonight: A boys' H.S. jr. varsity game with a game fee of $35.

Mark -- You completely misunderstand my point. There is no NFHS rule that names any fouls as "offensive". That doesn't mean that the team on offense doesn't commit fouls. My point is that the team on offense can commit fouls. That is what most people mean when they say the words "offensive foul." All codes cover the existence in actuality of fouls commited by the offense, although they may call them by other names. You can say, "NFHS doesn't use the word "offensive" as a title or category for fouls" but you can't say, the NFHS doesn't have offensive fouls. In common English, that would mean, "In NFHS, the offense can do whatever it wants, and it won't be a foul" which simply isn't true.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Mark -- You completely misunderstand my point. There is no NFHS rule that names any fouls as "offensive". That doesn't mean that the team on offense doesn't commit fouls. My point is that the team on offense can commit fouls. That is what most people mean when they say the words "offensive foul." All codes cover the existence in actuality of fouls commited by the offense, although they may call them by other names. You can say, "NFHS doesn't use the word "offensive" as a title or category for fouls" but you can't say, the NFHS doesn't have offensive fouls. In common English, that would mean, "In NFHS, the offense can do whatever it wants, and it won't be a foul" which simply isn't true.

Juulie:

As a science professional (structural engineer) I have certain language to use. Example: I would never say "two and two is four;" I would say "two plus two equals four." Sports officials are professionals and should use the correct language of the sport one officiates.

I find it offensive that a basketball official describing a play using NFHS or NCAA rules to describe a common foul by a player of the team which is in control of the ball an offensive foul.

MTD, Sr.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Juulie:

As a science professional (structural engineer) I have certain language to use. Example: I would never say "two and two is four;" I would say "two plus two equals four." Sports officials are professionals and should use the correct language of the sport one officiates.

I find it offensive that a basketball official describing a play using NFHS or NCAA rules to describe a common foul by a player of the team which is in control of the ball an offensive foul.

MTD, Sr.

Mark:

As a science professional (electrical engineer) all I can say is you crack me up.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
I find it offensive that a basketball official describing a play using NFHS or NCAA rules to describe a common foul by a player of the team which is in control of the ball an offensive foul.

I hope you're exaggerating. Some thought I was being touchy when I took offense at certain jokes and humor, but for you to be offended when I try to communicate with the people around me seems a little extreme.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by rainmaker

I hope you're exaggerating. Some thought I was being touchy when I took offense at certain jokes and humor, but for you to be offended when I try to communicate with the people around me seems a little extreme.

Juulie:

Yes, I am offended when professionals do not use correct language. You forget that we are also in a position to educate. When I hear an official use incorrect terminology it sends up a red flag, telling me that this official may not be as well versed in the rules as he should be. I guess if you are going to talk the talk, then use the correct terminology.

MTD, Sr.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Juulie:

Yes, I am offended when professionals do not use correct language. You forget that we are also in a position to educate. When I hear an official use incorrect terminology it sends up a red flag, telling me that this official may not be as well versed in the rules as he should be. I guess if you are going to talk the talk, then use the correct terminology.

MTD, Sr.

I didn't use "offensive foul", you did!! You are the one who said, "The NFHS doesn't have offensive fouls", not me!