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-   -   Poss. Arrow from score table to scoreboard tip (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/17984-poss-arrow-score-table-scoreboard-tip.html)

WyMike Thu Jan 27, 2005 05:48pm

Had an 'older' official give me a tip I wanted to pass along. It came from working my first 'big' JV game and having the arrow up on the scoreboard.

Prior to this game all my games had an arrow at the scoring table so direction was a pretty easy matter. But up on the wall at the end of the gym was a new deal for me.

A habit of carrying an extra whistle had already been ingrained from working football, so I carried one with me working BB too. Seemed like a good idea to me anyway. So to keep track of the PA I simply switch my whistle from one pocket to the other. When there is a JB whichever side my whistle is on while facing the benches indicates the direction of the ball.

Now if I can only remember to switch the whistle every time... ;)

Adam Thu Jan 27, 2005 06:10pm

It works fine for JV level stuff, but I would work hard at dropping the habit for varsity. It looks goofy, and there's no reason to hurry, so you can take the time to look at the board and figure it out.

ref18 Thu Jan 27, 2005 06:27pm

Don't the rules state that the arrow must be on the table??

I don't have my book with me right now so I'm not 100% sure, but that's what I thought it says.

Adam Thu Jan 27, 2005 06:30pm

Whether the rule states that or not is sometimes irrelevant. We've all done games where they didn't have one.

rainmaker Thu Jan 27, 2005 06:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Whether the rule states that or not is sometimes irrelevant. We've all done games where they didn't have one.
1-16. First time I've ever used Rule 1!

I'd rather use a water bottle at the table than that darn arrow on the scoreboard. When I was doing mostly rec and little kids stuff, I carried a small neon orange pylon in the trunk of my car. Laid on its side, it makes a good arrow. You just have to show the people at the table how to use it. Really not acceptable for HS stuff, though.

Smitty Thu Jan 27, 2005 06:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Whether the rule states that or not is sometimes irrelevant. We've all done games where they didn't have one.
1-16. First time I've ever used Rule 1!

I'd rather use a water bottle at the table than that darn arrow on the scoreboard. When I was doing mostly rec and little kids stuff, I carried a small neon orange pylon in the trunk of my car. Laid on its side, it makes a good arrow. You just have to show the people at the table how to use it. Really not acceptable for HS stuff, though.

If you had to help people figure out how to turn a cone on it's side, working the clock must have been like neurophysics to them. ;)

Rich Thu Jan 27, 2005 07:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
It works fine for JV level stuff, but I would work hard at dropping the habit for varsity. It looks goofy, and there's no reason to hurry, so you can take the time to look at the board and figure it out.
This is another one of those nit-picky evaluator things -- someone has a personal thing against this, so it becomes "goofy." Truth is, the only person that would ever notice something like this is an official (or evaluator) looking for it. Moving a whistle from one pocket to another could be done quite discreetly.

That said, it's better to just remember the arrow.

My pet peeve is the official that turns all the way around to look at the arrow. There's one official already "facing" the arrow and that official should be the one to give direction after an AP situation.

rainmaker Thu Jan 27, 2005 07:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
It works fine for JV level stuff, but I would work hard at dropping the habit for varsity. It looks goofy, and there's no reason to hurry, so you can take the time to look at the board and figure it out.
This is another one of those nit-picky evaluator things -- someone has a personal thing against this, so it becomes "goofy." Truth is, the only person that would ever notice something like this is an official (or evaluator) looking for it.

Maybe, but if I've been told that such and so of an evaluator hates this (and I have been so told), I'm sure not going to do it!!

Dan_ref Thu Jan 27, 2005 08:07pm

Quote:

Originally posted by WyMike
Had an 'older' official give me a tip I wanted to pass along. It came from working my first 'big' JV game and having the arrow up on the scoreboard.

Prior to this game all my games had an arrow at the scoring table so direction was a pretty easy matter. But up on the wall at the end of the gym was a new deal for me.

A habit of carrying an extra whistle had already been ingrained from working football, so I carried one with me working BB too. Seemed like a good idea to me anyway. So to keep track of the PA I simply switch my whistle from one pocket to the other. When there is a JB whichever side my whistle is on while facing the benches indicates the direction of the ball.

Now if I can only remember to switch the whistle every time... ;)

Here's a tip: keep the arrow in your head. Don't trust your spare whistle or rubber band to be right. Never trust the table to be right. It's easy to do.

BktBallRef Thu Jan 27, 2005 08:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by WyMike
Had an 'older' official give me a tip I wanted to pass along. It came from working my first 'big' JV game and having the arrow up on the scoreboard.

Prior to this game all my games had an arrow at the scoring table so direction was a pretty easy matter. But up on the wall at the end of the gym was a new deal for me.

A habit of carrying an extra whistle had already been ingrained from working football, so I carried one with me working BB too. Seemed like a good idea to me anyway. So to keep track of the PA I simply switch my whistle from one pocket to the other. When there is a JB whichever side my whistle is on while facing the benches indicates the direction of the ball.

Now if I can only remember to switch the whistle every time... ;)

Look like you're playing pocket pool.

JugglingReferee Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:16pm

Quote:

Originally posted by WyMike
Had an 'older' official give me a tip I wanted to pass along. It came from working my first 'big' JV game and having the arrow up on the scoreboard.

Prior to this game all my games had an arrow at the scoring table so direction was a pretty easy matter. But up on the wall at the end of the gym was a new deal for me.

A habit of carrying an extra whistle had already been ingrained from working football, so I carried one with me working BB too. Seemed like a good idea to me anyway. So to keep track of the PA I simply switch my whistle from one pocket to the other. When there is a JB whichever side my whistle is on while facing the benches indicates the direction of the ball.

Now if I can only remember to switch the whistle every time... ;)

I fully support this. In fact, I've been doing this exact mechanic for about 5 years now. It has saved me many many many times.

I also know that 'to move to the next level', this sort of thing is frowned upon. They say you should know the arrow in your head. Whatever.

Do what gets you to the next level. For me, I have no desire to do University level ball. That's why I do what I want to do. Like I said, that mechanic has saved our *** many times over.

IREFU2 Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:37pm

I have been working on keeping track of the arrow in my head. I have seen even tabled arrows not being switched. Try keeping it in your head.

Kelvin green Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:04pm

I would not rely on the scoreboard. There is no reason that a school cannot get an arrow at the table. That's where it supposed to be. If there is not an arrow they can get you one. A marker one on cardboard is better than one on the board...

TriggerMN Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:10am

Keep the arrow in your head. After each held ball, mentally tell yourself two or three times who gets the next alternating possession.

I had an evaluator tell me that if he ever caught anyone doing the whistle switch, that official would never work a game for him ever again.

ChuckElias Fri Jan 28, 2005 09:40am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
1-16. First time I've ever used Rule 1!

I'd rather use a water bottle at the table than that darn arrow on the scoreboard.

Juulie's exactly right. Get something on the table. We have a local school that just got nifty new scoreboards and for some reason, they think that's good enough. I've been there several times over the last two years and I always have to ask for an arrow at the table. (I know they have one, so why don't they just use it?) I always get the same response: "Why? It's on the scoreboard". Last week, it went even further. The guy at the table asked me "Well, if it's the rule, why don't we have to have it for any other game?" Dude, get me an arrow, or we don't start on time (I was a little more polite than that). So out comes a new, really cool-looking, high-tech, possession arrow that they just got. I don't know what the deal is with them.

As to remembering the arrow. As Dan said it's not that hard. Here's how to do it. For your backcourt, closely guarded, and inbounding counts, instead of counting "1-1,000 2-1,000 3-1,000" count "1-red arrow, 2-red arrow, 3-red arrow". Use it for every time you count, and you'll know the possession arrow on nearly every trip down the court.

Dan_ref Fri Jan 28, 2005 09:55am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
For your backcourt, closely guarded, and inbounding counts, instead of counting "1-1,000 2-1,000 3-1,000" count "1-red arrow, 2-red arrow, 3-red arrow". Use it for every time you count, and you'll know the possession arrow on nearly every trip down the court.
I like that Chuck, but what if red doesn't have the arrow????

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~gng/confused.jpg

Boiler14 Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:02am

One of the guys I ref with chews gum while working. He switches the gum from one side to the other in his mouth on a jump ball. I'd like to see the evaluator ring him up on that.

Smitty Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:23am

Quote:

Originally posted by Boiler14
One of the guys I ref with chews gum while working. He switches the gum from one side to the other in his mouth on a jump ball. I'd like to see the evaluator ring him up on that.
I'm pretty sure if I was chewing gum while reffing, I'd get a bad evaluation as well.

Redhouse Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:24am

He may not get rung up for switching the gum , but he may get knocked for chewing the gum to sart with.

I also chew gum when I am working. I have found that my jaws do not get as sore after calling a lot of games if I keep the gum in my mouth. I like the flavor thing also. Do other officials here chew gum on the court and is it usually frowned upon by evaluators.

Redhouse Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:26am

clarification
 
I don't actually chew it during live ball situations running up and down the court, it just stays in my check. I do take a few chews during a timeout or dead ball period.

Smitty Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:29am

Chewing gum is worse than coming to the site dressed. Well, some people may disagree...;)

Redhouse Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:37am

I am really in trouble then. I usually walk into the gym with my uniform on and chewing gum. I am so bad. Shame on me.

Smitty Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:43am

This is not really meant to be a joke, but I don't know how you'd be able to chew gum and blow the whistle at the same time. I just think it looks bad - like it would look to be in a business meeting smacking gum. I also take my wedding band off while officiating, although many don't. I personally feel that I should not be able to wear jewelry if the players are not allowed to wear it. So maybe I'm just being overly nitpicky about the gum as well.

rainmaker Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
As to remembering the arrow. As Dan said it's not that hard. Here's how to do it. For your backcourt, closely guarded, and inbounding counts, instead of counting "1-1,000 2-1,000 3-1,000" count "1-red arrow, 2-red arrow, 3-red arrow". Use it for every time you count, and you'll know the possession arrow on nearly every trip down the court.
I have never mastered this. I keep trying, though. But in the meantime, I've been trying to watch the arrow as the AP throw-in is being completed, to be sure it gets switched. Then it doesm't matter how long it is till the next AP, I trust the arrow. Also, if the table's got it right every time, the administration is so much easier. No arguing about why the table says white when I know for sure it's black.

Redhouse Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:55am

Well, like I said smitty. I don't actually chew the gum while I am blowing the whistle and calling fouls. I kind of just use it for the flavor and may take a few chews here and there during breaks in the action.

Actually my dentists recommended it a while back because I fond that my jaws and teeth would hurt after calling a few games in a row. He said that I may be biting down on my whistle without really knowing it. It felt like my teeth were moving. He suggested putting some gum in my mouth to see if that would help, and it has helped a lot.

Ref Daddy Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:20am


Tis in the NFHS book:

SECTION 16 POSSESSION ARROW
A visible display shall be located at the scorer's and timer's table to indicate team possession for the alternating-possession procedure.

Don't forget the option of a peice of paper with an Arrow drawn on it in an emergency

rainmaker Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:49am

Quote:

Originally posted by Redhouse
Well, like I said smitty. I don't actually chew the gum while I am blowing the whistle and calling fouls. I kind of just use it for the flavor and may take a few chews here and there during breaks in the action.
I like to see a gif of a ref with a whistle in his mouth, and gum bubbling up out of the little split-holes!

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
This is not really meant to be a joke, but I don't know how you'd be able to chew gum and blow the whistle at the same time.

It's not really a problem. I occasionally chew tobacco while I'm officiating. Comes in handy at times too. Coach says something I don't like-----> ptuuiii! Shuts 'em right up usually.

Rich Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:19pm

Quote:

Originally posted by TriggerMN
Keep the arrow in your head. After each held ball, mentally tell yourself two or three times who gets the next alternating possession.

I had an evaluator tell me that if he ever caught anyone doing the whistle switch, that official would never work a game for him ever again.

It's nice that this evaluator has soooo many people lined up to work for him. Glad I'm not one of them.


Redhouse Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:29pm

Jurassic,

Do you ever have to spit or do you just swallow it. I used to dip, but I would usually spit.

I was wondering if you had good coaches during a game, you would never have anyone to spit on.

rainmaker Fri Jan 28, 2005 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:

Originally posted by TriggerMN
Keep the arrow in your head. After each held ball, mentally tell yourself two or three times who gets the next alternating possession.

I had an evaluator tell me that if he ever caught anyone doing the whistle switch, that official would never work a game for him ever again.

It's nice that this evaluator has soooo many people lined up to work for him. Glad I'm not one of them.


Well, don't move to Oregon, then, if you want to work college games. No one here will put up with it.

Hotlink501 Fri Jan 28, 2005 01:34pm



unless yellow has the arrow, then you throw your count off.
1-yellow arrow, 2yellow arrow, 3 mellow yellow, 4. (lol)

joseph2493 Fri Jan 28, 2005 02:07pm

We are actually encouraged by our assignor to use the whistle in the pocket trick.

Robmoz Sat Jan 29, 2005 09:55am

Keep an arrow in my pocket? I used to use a roll of quarters but switched to the whistle after being told I was beginning to scare a few parents. Did I mention that I wear size 17 shoes?

rainmaker Sat Jan 29, 2005 09:58am

Quote:

Originally posted by Robmoz
Keep an arrow in my pocket? I used to use a roll of quarters but switched to the whistle after being told I was beginning to scare a few parents. Did I mention that I wear size 17 shoes?
LOL!! (no smutty smilie or gif here. I'm ABOVE that sort of thing!)

Rich Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:17pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:

Originally posted by TriggerMN
Keep the arrow in your head. After each held ball, mentally tell yourself two or three times who gets the next alternating possession.

I had an evaluator tell me that if he ever caught anyone doing the whistle switch, that official would never work a game for him ever again.

It's nice that this evaluator has soooo many people lined up to work for him. Glad I'm not one of them.


Well, don't move to Oregon, then, if you want to work college games. No one here will put up with it.

No plans to. If I move back to the NW, it will be back to Seattle (I took that season off from basketball as I had surgery on my ankle and I moved after one year, so no hoops there, lots of baseball, though).

I don't even carry a spare whistle on the court, anyway. I rarely even look at the arrow on an alternating possession -- I keep that little bit of info right in my head.

I'm just tired of evaluators in certain areas of the country that care more about this crap than how well you officiate a game. Fortunately for me, I don't live in such a place.

--Rich



[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Jan 29th, 2005 at 12:34 PM]

imaref Sat Jan 29, 2005 01:30pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
This is not really meant to be a joke, but I don't know how you'd be able to chew gum and blow the whistle at the same time.

It's not really a problem. I occasionally chew tobacco while I'm officiating. Comes in handy at times too. Coach says something I don't like-----> ptuuiii! Shuts 'em right up usually.

God...I really like this one! You got me laughing so hard my stomach aches!

wl

Rich Sat Jan 29, 2005 03:12pm

Quote:

Originally posted by imaref
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
This is not really meant to be a joke, but I don't know how you'd be able to chew gum and blow the whistle at the same time.

It's not really a problem. I occasionally chew tobacco while I'm officiating. Comes in handy at times too. Coach says something I don't like-----> ptuuiii! Shuts 'em right up usually.

God...I really like this one! You got me laughing so hard my stomach aches!

wl

I forego the tobacco entirely -- I just stare at his pants for a while and then barf on his shoes.

rainmaker Sat Jan 29, 2005 06:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:

Originally posted by imaref
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
This is not really meant to be a joke, but I don't know how you'd be able to chew gum and blow the whistle at the same time.

It's not really a problem. I occasionally chew tobacco while I'm officiating. Comes in handy at times too. Coach says something I don't like-----> ptuuiii! Shuts 'em right up usually.

God...I really like this one! You got me laughing so hard my stomach aches!

wl

I forego the tobacco entirely -- I just stare at his pants for a while and then barf on his shoes.

It's "puke" Rich. I'm offended that a professional like you can't use the vocabulary properly!!

Dan_ref Sat Jan 29, 2005 06:09pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker


I forego the tobacco entirely -- I just stare at his pants for a while and then barf on his shoes.

It's "puke" Rich. I'm offended that a professional like you can't use the vocabulary properly!! [/B][/QUOTE]

And I'm ofended that you would be offended!!

rainmaker Sat Jan 29, 2005 06:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker


I forego the tobacco entirely -- I just stare at his pants for a while and then barf on his shoes.

It's "puke" Rich. I'm offended that a professional like you can't use the vocabulary properly!!

And I'm ofended that you would be offended!! [/B][/QUOTE]

I'll see you one offense and raise you one insult...

Rich Sat Jan 29, 2005 08:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:

Originally posted by imaref
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
This is not really meant to be a joke, but I don't know how you'd be able to chew gum and blow the whistle at the same time.

It's not really a problem. I occasionally chew tobacco while I'm officiating. Comes in handy at times too. Coach says something I don't like-----> ptuuiii! Shuts 'em right up usually.

God...I really like this one! You got me laughing so hard my stomach aches!

wl

I forego the tobacco entirely -- I just stare at his pants for a while and then barf on his shoes.

It's "puke" Rich. I'm offended that a professional like you can't use the vocabulary properly!!

Sorry. I was thinking about my game last night -- lots of walking, over the backs, and reaching ins to deal with :)

Mark Dexter Sat Jan 29, 2005 09:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

I forego the tobacco entirely -- I just stare at his pants for a while and then barf on his shoes.

And they let you do varsity ball?

Next, you'll tell us that you go to the game already dressed - in belted slacks! :p

Rich Sat Jan 29, 2005 09:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

I forego the tobacco entirely -- I just stare at his pants for a while and then barf on his shoes.

And they let you do varsity ball?

Next, you'll tell us that you go to the game already dressed - in belted slacks! :p

I didn't know they made parachute pants with belt loops.

dblref Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:

Originally posted by Robmoz
Keep an arrow in my pocket? I used to use a roll of quarters but switched to the whistle after being told I was beginning to scare a few parents. Did I mention that I wear size 17 shoes?
LOL!! (no smutty smilie or gif here. I'm ABOVE that sort of thing!)

Yeah, right! :D


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