substitution ?

[todd66]

Had this situation last night in a 30 point game so it was not a big deal at the time. Shooting the last free throw of a multiple throw, with a sub for the shooter waiting at the table. The shooter makes the shot and we stop play to bring the sub in. The coach (of the team behind by thirty)decides he does not want that sub to go in, he wants another player that has not yet reported to go in. Since it is a blow out and it is in our best interest not to make things more difficult for ourselves, we allow this substitution to occur. By rule, however, should we have made the original sub to enter the game as well as the additional sub?

[Mark Dexter]

Had the ball ever become live?

If not, anyone is still allowed to sub in.

[todd66]

The only time the ball was alive was during the last throw. The big question is whether a sub must enter the game after they have reported and there is an opportunity to enter. Basically we stopped the game during a dead ball for a reported sub who then decided not to enter the game.

[mick]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Had the ball ever become live?

If not, anyone is still allowed to sub in.

Pretty close, Mark.
When the sub is beckoned the player, for whom the substitution is made becomes bench personnel. That removed player may not enter.

If the sub is not beckoned that sub is not a player, during a dead ball.
mick

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by mick

Pretty close, Mark.
When the sub is beckoned the player, for whom the substitution is made becomes bench personnel. That removed player may not enter.

If the sub is not beckoned that sub is not a player, during a dead ball.
mick

True.

However, there are a few mitigating circumstances.

First, the post does not indicate that the sub was beckoned.

Second, even if the player was beckoned, do we have a record of for whom he/she is substituting? (See the 'beginning-of-the-third-quarter' threads.)

Third, let's assume A1 is the replaced player, A6 is the 'original' sub, and A7 is the 'new' sub. Once A6 is beckoned, A1 is out, but A7 can still replace A6.

[todd66]

The original sub A1 was beckoned onto the floor. at that time the coach said no I do not want him in the game I want A6 in the game. A1 went to the bench, A6 reported and was beckoned, and A2 left the game. Hopefully this clears up what happened. Does A1 have to enter the game?

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by todd66
The original sub A1 was beckoned onto the floor. at that time the coach said no I do not want him in the game I want A6 in the game. A1 went to the bench, A6 reported and was beckoned, and A2 left the game. Hopefully this clears up what happened. Does A1 have to enter the game?

By rule, once you have waved him in, he's a player. He may be replaced, but A's coach needs two new subs. One for A1 and one for the shooter...we do know who he was subbing for because he was at the table BEFORE the final FT...and neither may re-enter until the next dead ball after the clock has run.

That's by rule, in practice...

[Maverick]

I don't have my rule book in front of me but I believe that the rules only say that a player who is subbed out can't return until the clock has properly started and the ball been live. I don't think there is anything about a substitute entering the game and then being subbed back out during the same dead ball period. Someone help me out on that. If I'm correct, I believe the original sub could enter then be subbed back out by a different player as long as it wasn't the original played he/she came in for.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Maverick
I don't have my rule book in front of me but I believe that the rules only say that a player who is subbed out can't return until the clock has properly started and the ball been live. I don't think there is anything about a substitute entering the game and then being subbed back out during the same dead ball period. Someone help me out on that. If I'm correct, I believe the original sub could enter then be subbed back out by a different player as long as it wasn't the original played he/she came in for.

Correct, and neither player may re-enter until the next opportunity to sub after the clock has run.

[joseph2493]

Third, let's assume A1 is the replaced player, A6 is the 'original' sub, and A7 is the 'new' sub. Once A6 is beckoned, A1 is out, but A7 can still replace A6. [/QUOTE]

To make sure the question is answered the 'original' sub can be replaced by a 'new' sub. By the rule the 'original' sub becomes a player and then is replaced before the ball become live again.