A shooter that hops

[zanzibar]

I'm surprised no one has had a similar thread as the following but, maybe, there has been and I missed it.
Also, my knowledge of the applicable rule and judgement of what is happening could be flawed.
I contend that the following traveling violation happens but is never called.
Here goes....A moving player catches the ball and legally leaves off 1 foot and simultaneously lands on 2 feet. Then he fakes shot and in beginning his drive...he picks up a foot before the ball leaves his hand to start his dribble. This is a travel when the ball leaves his hand to start his dribble.
I think this is a good shooting technique but if the rules are enforced makes a quick first step impossible. I see this movement constantly but have never seen this rule enforced. This also happens consistently on the nationally televised college games. I assume ?? that the NCAA rules are the same as the Fed.
I know 50 different refs that don't know the rule and they don't even know the situation is happening.
I don't know of any ref that was aware of this situation until I explained it to them.
I think this should be called. Am I right? Comments please.

[Smitty]

I know I'll take a ration if I get this wrong from memory, but if the player catches the pass in the air and then jumps off one foot and lands on both simultaneously (the good old jump stop) he can only lift one or both feet at that point to either shoot or pass. He lifts either foot and puts it down again, you have a travel right there. However if he jumps off one foot then catches the pass in the air and comes down with both feet simultaneously, then either foot can be the pivot so he can certainly lift one foot then start his dribble and you have nothing, because the foot that's still on the ground just became the pivot foot.

[Daryl H. Long]

As you described this is a travel and should be called. Travellng is a very complex rule and unfortunately with all its nuances many officials do not take the time to read it carefully (Rule 4-43). It is equally unfortunate that so many travels are called because the play looked funny and also not called because of not knowing the rule.

For your situation the following portions of that rule apply. 4.43.2.a.3, 4.43.2.b.2, 4.43.4.a & b.

[bob jenkins]

In addition -- if I'm not sure the player did what you describe (jump off one foot, land on both) (iow, if there's a possibility the player gathered the ball while in the air) and I'm not sure the pivot foot was lifted before the start of the dribble, I won't (well, I try not to) call the travel.

[Hartsy]

I have attended a few games recently with my Dad who claims that there is an illegal dribble or a travel on every play, as the game was officiated 50yrs ago when he played.

I guess what I mean by that is even if it meets the textbook definition of a travel, it has become part of how the game is played and maybe you need to be careful at how you call this.

I can't imagine calling this a travel unless the "offender" really was late on getting the ball down for the dribble, and even then might pass. If I have to analyze the play, I'm missing someting else.

[theboys]

I see the described travel called occasionally. Even though its the correct call, the poor official who does call it is the one who gets the abuse, because its called so rarely. To make matters worse, the official usually has to make the call two or three times - against the same player. The player and coach don't understand because "no one else calls it".

We occasionally see a referee during the AAU season who calls it consistently. People know it, and respect it.

Last, we have a couple of girls that travel every time they catch a pass with both feet on the floor, then immediately shoot (no dribble in between). After catching the pass (both feet on the floor), they take a small step with one foot, then a small jump with both feet, then shoot after returning to the floor. It happens very quickly, and is rarely called.

[Ref Daddy]

TRAVELING - OR NOT
4.43 SITUATION A: A1 attempts to catch the ball while running rapidly. A1 muffs the ball, but succeeds in securing it before it strikes the floor. A1 then begins a dribble, taking several steps between the time the ball was first touched until it was caught. RULING: There has been no violation provided A1, after catching the ball, released the ball to start the dribble before the pivot foot was lifted from the floor. (4-15)
4.43 SITUATION B: A1 attempts a try after ending the dribble. The try does not touch the backboard, the rim or any other player. A1 runs and is able to catch the ball before it strikes the floor. Is this traveling? RULING: No. When A1 recovered his/her own try, A1 could either dribble, pass or try again. There was no team control after the ball was released on a try. (4-12; 4-40)

[Ref Daddy]

ART. 3 . . . After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:

a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
c. The pivot foot may not be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.

[bwbuddy]

How 'bout this one, I saw at a boys' HS game:

Undefended inbounds pass to point guard. Before beginning dribble, player lifts one foot and rubs his hand across sole, and then lifts other foot and rubs other hand across sole (after switching ball to opposite hand, of course). He then begins dribble.

What's the call?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by bwbuddy
How 'bout this one, I saw at a boys' HS game:

Undefended inbounds pass to point guard. Before beginning dribble, player lifts one foot and rubs his hand across sole, and then lifts other foot and rubs other hand across sole (after switching ball to opposite hand, of course). He then begins dribble.

What's the call?

By rule, it's travelling.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by bwbuddy
How 'bout this one, I saw at a boys' HS game:

Undefended inbounds pass to point guard. Before beginning dribble, player lifts one foot and rubs his hand across sole, and then lifts other foot and rubs other hand across sole (after switching ball to opposite hand, of course). He then begins dribble.

What's the call?

As Padgett would say, "Girls' game is tomorrow night!"

[golfdesigner]

I see this one all the time and think it is a travel, nobody ever calls it.

A1 standing awaiting a pass from teammate...ball arrives and A1 steps about 6-inches forward with one foot, then steps about 6-inches forward with other foot then comes set and launches a try.

first foot to move establishes other foot as pivot, then the other foot moves to get ready to shoot.

I think when the "other" foot is picked up and then touches the floor, we got a travel.

Any comments?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

By rule, it's travelling.

Hey, I'd call that. Just so I could laugh at his coach.

[zanzibar]

Thanks everyone for your comments on this thread of mine. I'd like to call upon one more expert opinion. BktBallRef would you please comment if you have the time. I'd like for you to comment on the original situation of this thread.
Anyone who feels like he/she has a good opinion on this is encouraged to respond. We are lucky to have so many good interpreters of the rules on this forum.

[bellyache]

in your thread you made a very accurate description of what may be one of the most difficult calls (traveling)for a young official to master. to me it was a matter of recognizing when there is a pivot foot established. i have worked with official(s) that have given explainations to a travel call as "you can not pivot out of a jump stop" I 100% disagree. i have been taught, and coached, the old 1: JUMP STOP, 2: PIVOT, 3: PASS. When taught correctly this certainly is a legal move. I really believe our game suffers from the lack of uniform knowledge of the rule. Thank you for this wonderful thread. You sound like a very knowlegable official. Does this kind of understanding ever seem to get you in "hot water" with coaches?