Is the girls season being played at the same time as the boys season. I know there was talk but is it officially changed for the fall of 2005??

Anyone know??

In MICHIGAN SORRY!!

Still in court, I think.

mick probably knows.

As soon as he gets in from shoveling snow, we'll ask him.

Last I heard, the MHSAA had petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court to hear its appeal of the Sixth Circuit opinion (affirming the U.S. District Court's ruling that the separate sports seasons violated the U.S. Constitution). I believe that the parties are waiting to hear from the Court as to whether the appeal will be heard.

If the Court decides to hear the appeal, it will most likely also order a stay of the Sixth Circuit's ruling, thus enabling next year's seasons to go on as in past years (separated). If the Court declines to hear the appeal, the MHSAA will need to comply with the various courts' orders right away (i.e., beginning with the 05-06 year).

We should hear whether the Supreme Court will consider the appeal relatively soon....

The MHSAA has indeed taken the final step to the US Supreme Court but internally has decided to forego the fight and is implementing the change for the 2005-06 season.

The effect will be that the girls and the boys will play in the winter season. The boys will play at home while the girls play away alternating on Tuesdays and Fridays.

This will have a dramatic impact on some schools relating to coaching and facility use which could result in various problems including the elimination of Freshman or JV teams for some schools.

You can read about the latest press release at the following link:

http://www.mhsaa.com/news/supreme.htm

A clarification question here: it is my understanding that scheduling is really left up to schools/leagues/conferences and that, while some schools will do as you suggest above (play at home & away sites on the same nights), other schools/leagues/conferences will develop other plans (e.g., play boys on Wed/Fri and girls on Tue/Thu for half the season, then swap for the second half (boys on Tue/Thu, girls on Wed/Fri); or play girls and boys varsity at the same sites on the same nights and the boys and girls Fresh/JV on other nights or at away sites.

Am I wrong that how the schedule shakes out will be different from place to place?

Out of curiosity...why is this raising such a stink? And how do they schedule boys/girls basketball in Michigan today?

Now, girls play hoops in the fall (mostly Tuesday and Thursday nights); boys play hoops in the winter (mostly Tuesday and Friday nights).

As to why the potential change is raising a "stink," I suppose you'd have to see/recreate the earlier, lengthy threads on this topic....

Well, it is correct to assume that conferences will have their own scheduled construction but the MHSAA will endorse consistency which could stabilize cross-conference scheduling, facility scheduling, and not to mention the officials.

It is UNLIKELY that the girls will be relegated to play on any other nights not offered to the boys. One of the aspects of gender equity requirements will not allow the boys to get preference over Friday dates thus creating an inequity. The girls will have the same opportunity to secure facility selection, practice time and game time equal to that of the boys. That is, the girls will be allowed to use the "good floor" at the "preferred time" on the "preferred days".

To get a better understanding about the "stink" please visit the MHSAA website listed below:

http://www.mhsaa.com/news/gesuit.html

Here you can read about the whole matter right from the beginning. It is quite interesting if you are into really knowing all the facts. CHECK IT OUT!

In NC, we've always played boys and girls in the winter. We play varsity doubleheaders, girls at 6pm, followed by the boys. The 3 man crew works both games.

Some conferences play their JV games at the opposite site, some play all 4 games at the same site. The same JV crew works both games.

I realize that it's a huge change but it's not that difficult to pull off. But I can tell you that if you play the girls games at separate sites, the girls' coaches are going to whine that the boys ganes are getting all the best officials. Mark my words, if they take that scheduling route, it will happen.

Why is this so difficult? Play games on different nights. For the most part the Boy's basketball team plays on Tuesday, Friday and Saturday in my state. But that does not mean they can play 3 games every week. Teams are only allowed to play about 17 games during the regular season. That is modified a bit depending on what type of tournament or shootouts that take place. Usually most conferences play on Tuesdays and Fridays. Fridays are when everyone plays somewhere on the Boy's side. Because of some lawsuits around here, there were a couple of conferences that would play those doubleheaders as Tony mentioned. The problem was that everyone would come to watch the Boy's games and leave for the Girl's games. These conferences would alternate each year which game would go first. When the Boy's games were first, they crowd would be packed. When the second game was the Girl's, everyone would basically leave. So now it seems like the Girl's play in the middle of the Afternoon on Saturday and they Boy's play at night or later in the day. During the week Girl's play mostly on Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. But this is the first time I can remember that I have had Boy's games on those typical Girl's nights. All of this apparently to accommodate these conflicts that might come up with officials or "splitting the crowd."

To add, the Girl's go first in their playoff games. So there are at least two weeks where a school will not have any real conflicts with both teams.

Peace

I have a sociology of sport class this semester, for which I have to write a term project, and this seems like a pretty interesting topic.

I'm just wondering - if I were to do this, would any of you Michiganers (Michiganians?) be willing to let me pick your brains for some beginning guidance? Thanks.

Since the 6th Circuit refused the enbanc petition, it will not hit the Supreme Court for awhile. Unless there is some emergency stay, it wont get on the SC docket this session.

I will be interested to see what the court does but given their previous rulings and that there dont appear to be conflicting rulings from other circuits, the court battle does not look very good for MHSAA

Robmoz,
Not quite true that the MHSAA has given up the fight "internally". They will continue the litigation until they lose, and they WILL lose eventually. It could be "05-06" or the next year.
Also, each conference will decide what nights to play on, not the set nights that you cite.

FYI, I am dead set against the switch. And unless one lives in our state, and sees how the present system works, one can't say what is the correct or incorrect system for us.
Most states began with boys/girls in the same season. We are being forced to switch by a gaggle of judges who do not live in Michigan. They don't care that 95% of our member schools do not favor the switch.

Michigan, under the present system, ranks 4th in the nation in girl's high school sports participation. Michigan also ranks 5th for NCAA scholarships for girls.

I really don't expect others to understand how difficult it will be. Unless you live in Michigan, you could not know.

Barb

Perhaps we could not know in the empathetic, gut-level way that you know, but it doesn't take a lot of imagination to guess that you're right. Ive spent the last year since I heard about this, trying to figure out how to get Oregon to go to your system. It sounds A LOT better.

Whatever the oatmealqueen says is the way it is.

U.P. here the Girls' contracts have been sent for 2005-2006.
From a sample, it appears that experienced officials have had their varsity schedules halved. (eg, Instead of 20 Girls and 20 Boys, they receive 10 Girls and 10 Boys.)

1st and 2nd year officials are being contracted to work the Girls' Varsity season, while most of the experience will be working Boys Varsity.

http://www.deephousepage.com/smilies/confused.gif
mick

I would not expend a lot of energy trying to get Oregon to switch. 48 states or so are aligned the same way and every court across the country that has had a chance to rule on this topic has ruled the "separate but equal" seasons as illegal.

I would also disagree with the statement that it was a bunch of judges outside the state that made this decision, The judge that made the initial ruling was from a Michigan Federal district court...

Now to play devil's advocate...I would also agree that if Michigan was ranked 45th in population that having the 4th highest participation numbers in the country and 5th highest scholarship rate is pretty good, but when Michigan is #8 in population I am not sure the numbers are significant...

Kelvin,
No one is claiming "Better or Best".
Only that Michigan is no worse than rest.
mick

You're a poet and don't know it.
You rhyme everytime.

We here in S E Mi have dates set for Girls ball in the fall. Of course, this will be a mute point if the switch is going to be made. As far as game dates, if the switch is made, some of the conferences(sp) are talking about Girls JV/V on Tue/Fri the first week with Boys JV/V on Wed. They would then switch for the following week. The state also will schedule the girls to start a week earlier, I am sure there is someone out there that will correct me if I am wrong, so the also can use the Brelin Center in East Lansing as the site for the semi's & finals for the state tournament. We play a schedule of 20 games at present. I am told this maybe reduced or add 2 or 3 saturdays into the mix. As of right know its schedule as if we will still be playing in the fall. I'm not holding my breath....

that's a walk,
You're set for September, and we're set for December.
I wonder if any will even remember.

I never doubted there were two states of Michigan.
Maybe, like Track and Field, The Lower will have there champions and the Upper will have their champions.
http://www.deephousepage.com/smilies/conf40.gif

mick