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-   -   Your Professionalism vs. your partners (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/17617-your-professionalism-vs-your-partners.html)

Indy_Ref Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:03pm

I marvel how a word like professionalism can carry so many meanings to different officials. Since everyone is different and could have a different slant on what professionalism means to them, I wonder if you would please post your version of what you think professionalism is while you're on the court or at a gamesite.

From http://www.dictionary.com (root word professional):

1a. Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.
1b. Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.
2. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.
3. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.
4. Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.

This year, I have run into partners (believe it or not) who will actually HUG a coach before the game...or will talk a lot to a coach BEFORE and/or AFTER a game. During the game they will punch fists with the players, help them up, pat them on the back too long, make a difficult call and immediately run to a coach to explain it...you name it!!! It makes me VERY uncomfortable when any of this stuff happens!

In short, I think we're out there to provide a fair playing field for the kids...try to make sure no one gets an unfair advantage...answer the coach's questions when necessary...and most of all have fun. My regular partners all feel the same...but I can't do all my games with my regular partners.

What do you other officials do when you come across a partner or partners who don't measure up to your level of professionalism?

I have a hard time dealing with guys who are hugging on coaches during our pregame!!!!!!!!!!

bgtg19 Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:35pm

I agree that professionalism means different things to different people. I think each of us has to figure out what it means for us, and commit to being disciplined about being true to that meaning.

For me, being "professional," in the context of high school basketball officiating, means something like the following:

~ I will be reliable (fulfill assignments I take, even if better ones are later offered; be on time; etc.)
~ I will be prepared, mentally and physically (know the rules; proper frame of mind; in shape; etc.)
~ I will strive to not only be, but appear to be, neutral (no glad handing with coaches, fans, etc., but be gracious and polite when approached)
~ I will maintain my composure at all times and under all circumstances
~ I will be eager to learn more and be better

I'm guessing that I'll later wish I had included other things, but those are what come to me right now. As for what I do when I come across other officials who do not share my view of professionalism ... I think you simply need to maintain your own professionalism, regardless of what your partner is doing. Having said that, I also think it is important to appear to be a part of an officiating team, so NOT doing things that accentuate the differences between you and your partner are important, as long as you are not doing things to compromise your own professionalism.

Thanks, Indy_Ref, for reminding me to think about this.

Smitty Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:47pm

Showing up late to a game is unprofessional. I make it a point to be early for my games. Plenty of time to relax and do a thorough pre-game prior to the 15 minute warm-up. I've worked at least 5 JV games in the past 2 years where one of the Varsity officials was there and the other was not when my game finished. I stuck around to fill in if the other ref didn't show up. I do a thorough pre-game with my new partner and every single time - 5 for 5 - the other varsity ref shows up right after we go through all the pre-game. It not only pisses me off, but it pisses that varsity ref who now has to rush his pre-game with his original partner while they walk up to the gym. If your schedule is such that you can't get off work in time to make it to a game at least 30 minutes ahead of time, don't accept the game. You're not only screwing your partner, but the guy who stays to take your place.

ChrisSportsFan Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:54pm

I have lots of thoughts as to what is professionalism to me. Regarding your question on how I respond to unprofessional partners I offer this;

as a Sales Manager, I employ this saying to myself, my salespeople and my installation team: Today it's easier to succeed than ever before, simply because so much of your competition deosn't even try.

I have no authority over my partner but I can try to influence them with leading by example. If that has no effect, It will at least motivate me to "do everything right" as I know I'll be recognized for my actions/abilities and they'll be recognized for theirs. I know what my goals are and where I want to get to and I'm in a continual state of learning what it will take. That's what I can focus on.


Adam Fri Jan 14, 2005 01:51pm

Well, over the last two years on this forum, I've learned what's unprofessional.

1. Showing up late for a game.
2. Showing up dressed for a game.
3. Wearing belted pants.
4. wearing shoes that aren't shined.
5. wearing shoes that aren't all black.
6. wearing collared shirts.
7. chatting with coaches unnecessarily.

In light of all that, I'm considering doing my next game naked to avoid looking unprofessional.

Adam Fri Jan 14, 2005 01:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
Showing up late to a game is unprofessional. I make it a point to be early for my games. Plenty of time to relax and do a thorough pre-game prior to the 15 minute warm-up. I've worked at least 5 JV games in the past 2 years where one of the Varsity officials was there and the other was not when my game finished. I stuck around to fill in if the other ref didn't show up. I do a thorough pre-game with my new partner and every single time - 5 for 5 - the other varsity ref shows up right after we go through all the pre-game. It not only pisses me off, but it pisses that varsity ref who now has to rush his pre-game with his original partner while they walk up to the gym. If your schedule is such that you can't get off work in time to make it to a game at least 30 minutes ahead of time, don't accept the game. You're not only screwing your partner, but the guy who stays to take your place.
At the sub-varsity level, this is actually a regional things. I've expressed to my assignor before that I'd have a difficult time getting there 30 minutes ahead of time, and he told me 15 minutes would be fine.
I always strive to be half an hour early, and have done better at it this year. Although Junker can attest to the fact that I haven't always succeeded.
(I was there 10 minutes early, yet 20 minutes late) :)

Smitty Fri Jan 14, 2005 01:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
Showing up late to a game is unprofessional. I make it a point to be early for my games. Plenty of time to relax and do a thorough pre-game prior to the 15 minute warm-up. I've worked at least 5 JV games in the past 2 years where one of the Varsity officials was there and the other was not when my game finished. I stuck around to fill in if the other ref didn't show up. I do a thorough pre-game with my new partner and every single time - 5 for 5 - the other varsity ref shows up right after we go through all the pre-game. It not only pisses me off, but it pisses that varsity ref who now has to rush his pre-game with his original partner while they walk up to the gym. If your schedule is such that you can't get off work in time to make it to a game at least 30 minutes ahead of time, don't accept the game. You're not only screwing your partner, but the guy who stays to take your place.
At the sub-varsity level, this is actually a regional things. I've expressed to my assignor before that I'd have a difficult time getting there 30 minutes ahead of time, and he told me 15 minutes would be fine.
I always strive to be half an hour early, and have done better at it this year. Although Junker can attest to the fact that I haven't always succeeded.
(I was there 10 minutes early, yet 20 minutes late) :)

Good point. And I'd also say that if you know you're going to be late (or possibly be late) and you let your partner know, that's different. I was mainly talking about guys who show up late without anyone knowing you're going to be late.

Adam Fri Jan 14, 2005 02:08pm

That's far easier to do if you know two things.

A. Who your partner is.
B. How to reach him/her.

Smitty Fri Jan 14, 2005 02:12pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
That's far easier to do if you know two things.

A. Who your partner is.
B. How to reach him/her.

Our association has an awesome website that shows all that info. With a click of the mouse I can send my partner an email, see his phone numbers, I can even look at his/her picture....which is sometimes scary. This is the first association I've worked in that uses the web, and it makes a world of difference. Camron Rust, who posts in this forum, built the site and it is fantastic.

Adam Fri Jan 14, 2005 02:16pm

You're in Portland, right?

Smitty Fri Jan 14, 2005 02:19pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
You're in Portland, right?
Yep

Adam Fri Jan 14, 2005 02:27pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
You're in Portland, right?
Yep

In case I move out of Des Moines, I might just pick a locale with a decent officials' association. :)

gordon30307 Fri Jan 14, 2005 02:42pm


What do you other officials do when you come across a partner or partners who don't measure up to your level of professionalism?

I have a hard time dealing with guys who are hugging on coaches during our pregame!!!!!!!!!! [/B][/QUOTE]

Never had a partner hug a Coach during a pregame. The only person that you can control is yourself. Not much you can do once the game starts. Just try to get through it the best that you can. If you see the guy on your schedule next time give it back to your assignor.

OverAndBack Fri Jan 14, 2005 02:44pm

Just in the short time I've been doing this, I've noticed there are different ideas of what should be done and how one should carry oneself (not just in this sport), but you can't worry about it. Sometimes it's frustrating when someone else (in your game or another one) doesn't seem to be taking things as seriously as you do. But as a relatively new guy, I'm not going to say anything to someone who's been at it awhile. I just do things the way I've been taught and that's all I can do. If I ever work with a partner who's less experienced than me (hard for someone to be less experienced than me), I'll point things out constructively, as long as I get the sense they are receptive to feedback. We all know that no matter what endeavor you're involved in, there are some people who just don't want advice or feedback. Let those people go on, and just do the best you can personally. Hopefully stuff sinks in eventually.

garote Fri Jan 14, 2005 03:13pm

I had this the other night. My partner is a very experienced official. D1, JC, ETC.... But all before the game he is "glad handing" everybody. I don't think there was anybody in the stands he didn't know.

My advice is this, just work your game. I realize that this behavior reflects on both of us as a "crew" but if you work hard during the game it gives the fans and the coaches nothing to complain about.

Camron Rust Fri Jan 14, 2005 04:45pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Well, over the last two years on this forum, I've learned what's unprofessional.

1. Showing up late for a game.
2. Showing up dressed for a game.
3. Wearing belted pants.
4. wearing shoes that aren't shined.
5. wearing shoes that aren't all black.
6. wearing collared shirts.
7. chatting with coaches unnecessarily.

In light of all that, I'm considering doing my next game naked to avoid looking unprofessional.

Well, of those you listed, i don't think two are up for nearly as much variation as the rest.

Numbers 5 and 6 are defined parts of the uniform. The officiating manual says, if I remember correctly, black shoes. It doesn't say black and white shoes or shoes with some black. Black shoe are just that...black shoes. Likewise for the shirt, it specifies V-neck as part of the uniform. (I think they've removed reference to bhe Byron collar). Even if they haven't, most association have specified the type of shirt or at least that both officials should wear the same kind.

Of course arriving for the game late is a valid item that should apply everywhere. But, what is late? Some places expect officials to arrive 60 minutes before, some 45, some 30. So, while being late is certainly a professionalism issue, the definition of late varies.

That leaves 2,3, and 4....all merely opinions where there is no one right or best answer. They all vary by association. My take is that some people need 3 and 4 to distract everyone from the quality of their calls! ;)

For number 2, while I generally agree with it, some people have a need to find a way feel good about themselve and/or use it to put others down.

Lastly, #7 is just not necessary and is widely viewed as something that can only do harm while avoiding it can do no harm. Still, there would be variation on what "unnecessary" chat would be.

Smitty Fri Jan 14, 2005 05:17pm

shiny shoes
 
I don't wear shiny shoes. I think they are...well...ugly. I'm curious though why people do wear shiny shoes. Was it ever in the Official's Manual that your shoes have to be shined? I'm guessing this is something that started way back in the day when refs maybe wore regular shoes to officiate in - not sneakers. I know some associations definitely want you to wear shiny shoes. I'm so glad mine doesn't seem to care. Does anyone know the history on this?

TimTaylor Fri Jan 14, 2005 05:55pm

Re: shiny shoes
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
I don't wear shiny shoes. I think they are...well...ugly. I'm curious though why people do wear shiny shoes. Was it ever in the Official's Manual that your shoes have to be shined? I'm guessing this is something that started way back in the day when refs maybe wore regular shoes to officiate in - not sneakers. I know some associations definitely want you to wear shiny shoes. I'm so glad mine doesn't seem to care. Does anyone know the history on this?
I don't think "shiny" as in patent leather is necessary - just clean & polished. I bought my Reebok's because they have the best fit & arch for my feet. They do kinda make me feel like I should have a floppy hat to go with them though....... They are availble in a non-patent version, but only on special order.....oh well....maybe next year!

Smitty Fri Jan 14, 2005 05:57pm

Re: Re: shiny shoes
 
Quote:

Originally posted by TimTaylor
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
I don't wear shiny shoes. I think they are...well...ugly. I'm curious though why people do wear shiny shoes. Was it ever in the Official's Manual that your shoes have to be shined? I'm guessing this is something that started way back in the day when refs maybe wore regular shoes to officiate in - not sneakers. I know some associations definitely want you to wear shiny shoes. I'm so glad mine doesn't seem to care. Does anyone know the history on this?
I don't think "shiny" as in patent leather is necessary - just clean & polished. I bought my Reebok's because they have the best fit & arch for my feet. They do kinda make me feel like I should have a floppy hat to go with them though....... They are availble in a non-patent version, but only on special order.....oh well....maybe next year!

But that's the thing. Polishing sneakers just seems so wrong. I'm wondering how it came to be in the first place and why people think it is important today.

Back In The Saddle Fri Jan 14, 2005 06:50pm

Re: Re: Re: shiny shoes
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
Quote:

Originally posted by TimTaylor
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
I don't wear shiny shoes. I think they are...well...ugly. I'm curious though why people do wear shiny shoes. Was it ever in the Official's Manual that your shoes have to be shined? I'm guessing this is something that started way back in the day when refs maybe wore regular shoes to officiate in - not sneakers. I know some associations definitely want you to wear shiny shoes. I'm so glad mine doesn't seem to care. Does anyone know the history on this?
I don't think "shiny" as in patent leather is necessary - just clean & polished. I bought my Reebok's because they have the best fit & arch for my feet. They do kinda make me feel like I should have a floppy hat to go with them though....... They are availble in a non-patent version, but only on special order.....oh well....maybe next year!

But that's the thing. Polishing sneakers just seems so wrong. I'm wondering how it came to be in the first place and why people think it is important today.

Why do we wear pants when the players wear shorts? Tradition? Baseball umpires used to wear a coat and tie, now they're all in rainbow colored shirts. And the soccer referees, there's some wild gear for you. I don't know that anybody can give a definitive answer on why the uniform for any sport's officials is the way it is. But it is.

I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said, "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Shiney shoes be matters of style.

Camron Rust Fri Jan 14, 2005 07:26pm

Re: Re: Re: shiny shoes
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
Quote:

Originally posted by TimTaylor
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
I don't wear shiny shoes. I think they are...well...ugly. I'm curious though why people do wear shiny shoes. Was it ever in the Official's Manual that your shoes have to be shined? I'm guessing this is something that started way back in the day when refs maybe wore regular shoes to officiate in - not sneakers. I know some associations definitely want you to wear shiny shoes. I'm so glad mine doesn't seem to care. Does anyone know the history on this?
I don't think "shiny" as in patent leather is necessary - just clean & polished. I bought my Reebok's because they have the best fit & arch for my feet. They do kinda make me feel like I should have a floppy hat to go with them though....... They are availble in a non-patent version, but only on special order.....oh well....maybe next year!

But that's the thing. Polishing sneakers just seems so wrong. I'm wondering how it came to be in the first place and why people think it is important today.

I think it's just a matter of the shoes looking clean and not worn. Some have just carried it so far as to look like they've been at boot camp with nothing but those shoes for their dress uniform.

Smitty Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:51pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: shiny shoes
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
Quote:

Originally posted by TimTaylor
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
I don't wear shiny shoes. I think they are...well...ugly. I'm curious though why people do wear shiny shoes. Was it ever in the Official's Manual that your shoes have to be shined? I'm guessing this is something that started way back in the day when refs maybe wore regular shoes to officiate in - not sneakers. I know some associations definitely want you to wear shiny shoes. I'm so glad mine doesn't seem to care. Does anyone know the history on this?
I don't think "shiny" as in patent leather is necessary - just clean & polished. I bought my Reebok's because they have the best fit & arch for my feet. They do kinda make me feel like I should have a floppy hat to go with them though....... They are availble in a non-patent version, but only on special order.....oh well....maybe next year!

But that's the thing. Polishing sneakers just seems so wrong. I'm wondering how it came to be in the first place and why people think it is important today.

Why do we wear pants when the players wear shorts? Tradition? Baseball umpires used to wear a coat and tie, now they're all in rainbow colored shirts. And the soccer referees, there's some wild gear for you. I don't know that anybody can give a definitive answer on why the uniform for any sport's officials is the way it is. But it is.

I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said, "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Shiney shoes be matters of style.

You're missing my point. The rules say we should wear black pants. That's why we wear black pants. They say we should wear black shoes. Nothing about shiny black shoes. Who decided they need to be shiny? I know a lot of people think it's important.

Chess Ref Sat Jan 15, 2005 07:41am

Shiny Shoes
 
i like to polish my shoes. Reminds me of my time in the United States Army. i use that time to review my last game or review for the upcoming game. It's turning into a form of meditation..

Back In The Saddle Sat Jan 15, 2005 07:44pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: shiny shoes
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
Quote:

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
Quote:

Originally posted by TimTaylor
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
I don't wear shiny shoes. I think they are...well...ugly. I'm curious though why people do wear shiny shoes. Was it ever in the Official's Manual that your shoes have to be shined? I'm guessing this is something that started way back in the day when refs maybe wore regular shoes to officiate in - not sneakers. I know some associations definitely want you to wear shiny shoes. I'm so glad mine doesn't seem to care. Does anyone know the history on this?
I don't think "shiny" as in patent leather is necessary - just clean & polished. I bought my Reebok's because they have the best fit & arch for my feet. They do kinda make me feel like I should have a floppy hat to go with them though....... They are availble in a non-patent version, but only on special order.....oh well....maybe next year!

But that's the thing. Polishing sneakers just seems so wrong. I'm wondering how it came to be in the first place and why people think it is important today.

Why do we wear pants when the players wear shorts? Tradition? Baseball umpires used to wear a coat and tie, now they're all in rainbow colored shirts. And the soccer referees, there's some wild gear for you. I don't know that anybody can give a definitive answer on why the uniform for any sport's officials is the way it is. But it is.

I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said, "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Shiney shoes be matters of style.

You're missing my point. The rules say we should wear black pants. That's why we wear black pants. They say we should wear black shoes. Nothing about shiny black shoes. Who decided they need to be shiny? I know a lot of people think it's important.

"They" did :D

My point, of course, is that even though it's arbitrary, don't let "rebellion" against the current style hold you back.

JRutledge Sun Jan 16, 2005 04:00am

Re: Re: Re: shiny shoes
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
But that's the thing. Polishing sneakers just seems so wrong. I'm wondering how it came to be in the first place and why people think it is important today.
Why does the military require hair to be cut short? Why do police officers wear the same colors and style on a police force? Why does working at one job require a suit and tie and another job require no suit and tie. Who cares why, it just it that way. If you want to fit in and be seen as a team player or someone that takes this seriously, you follow the style that is required. It is called a uniform for a reason. We are supposed to look someone a like. It is not all about what we call. We are also representing something as well.

Peace

Smitty Sun Jan 16, 2005 02:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: shiny shoes
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
But that's the thing. Polishing sneakers just seems so wrong. I'm wondering how it came to be in the first place and why people think it is important today.
Why does the military require hair to be cut short? Why do police officers wear the same colors and style on a police force? Why does working at one job require a suit and tie and another job require no suit and tie. Who cares why, it just it that way. If you want to fit in and be seen as a team player or someone that takes this seriously, you follow the style that is required. It is called a uniform for a reason. We are supposed to look someone a like. It is not all about what we call. We are also representing something as well.

Peace

Dude, you've got a big chip on your shoulder. I care why - that's why I asked the question. Nothing says our shoes need to be shined where our uniform is defined. I was simply curious if it ever did say they had to be shined. Your pompous attitude makes me respect your answers less and less. I don't really put much weight into what you say at this point. You imply that anyone that doesn't approach this job the same way you do isn't taking it seriously. They don't act professional unless they adhere to your personal code of conduct. What a bunch of crap.

JRutledge Sun Jan 16, 2005 06:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: shiny shoes
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty


Dude, you've got a big chip on your shoulder. I care why - that's why I asked the question.

Chip on my shoulder? For what?

Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
Nothing says our shoes need to be shined where our uniform is defined. I was simply curious if it ever did say they had to be shined.
Nothing? Are you sure about that? From day one I was told that my shoes had to be shined. Any camp I have attended. Any association presentation I have seen has talked about shining your shoes as a basketball official. I do not know where you live, but it is constantly said. Does that mean everyone does that? Of course it does not.

Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
Your pompous attitude makes me respect your answers less and less. I don't really put much weight into what you say at this point.
Smitty, I really do not care if you like my answers or not. That is your issue, not mine. It seems like you are spending a lot of time wondering asking why all the time and wanting evidence of very common practices. You seem to want everything written down to prove a point. Well if everything needs to be written down for you to decide what to do, you will have a hard time in this world. There are a lot of things that are not spelled out, but you have to follow them. Sorry you seemed to be offended to be told the truth.

Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
You imply that anyone that doesn't approach this job the same way you do isn't taking it seriously. They don't act professional unless they adhere to your personal code of conduct. What a bunch of crap.
It sounds like you are projecting your own feelings about your own commitment based on what I am saying. I do not care how seriously you or anyone takes this. That is up to you to decide if wearing the proper uniform or "looking the part" is important to you. If it is not important to you that just mean one less person I have to compete with. And Smitty, you and I are not competing for anything. You are just some guy on an internet site that as far as I know you are not even a good official. So really Smitty, relax. Life is too short to get upset over a person that you do not know or will never meet.

<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif' alt='ROTFL' border=0></a>

Peace

Smitty Sun Jan 16, 2005 07:23pm

All you just did was validate everything I just said about you.

JRutledge Sun Jan 16, 2005 07:29pm

Oh boy!!!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
All you just did was validate everything I just said about you.
<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_25.gif' alt='Scared 1' border=0></a>

I guess me feelings are supposed to be hurt now? Am I going to have to give back all my assignments? Should I quit officiating because you said things about me now?

Peace

Smitty Sun Jan 16, 2005 07:50pm

Grow up and then we can talk. You're just making a fool of yourself now.

JRutledge Sun Jan 16, 2005 08:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
Grow up and then we can talk. You're just making a fool of yourself now.
<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/28/28_4_1v.gif' alt='Snow Day' border=0></a>

I am already grown there Smitty. ;) I know that nothing changes in my life one way or another because you got offended by what I said to you. Everything in my life is still the same. I do not think I am the person that needs to grow up. You are the one getting upset over what someone on an internet site said to you. ;)

Peace

OverAndBack Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:25pm

http://www.kenn.com/images/pong.gif

Baseman611 Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:52pm

Pride in the job???
 
I am really glad this post has come to light. Lately I ahve been gorwing more and more agitated at the lack of professionalism some of my partners have shown. You can tell if a guy is going to give a good game usually with a couple of questions. #1 Do you do it because you love the game? Or is it for the money? THe mony guys do not give a s*$@ and it erally affects yor whole game. These are the sam guys that think they need to be getting more VArsity games and worse yet, they should be the REFEREE!!! for the darn games as well. When they do not rotate, do not listen becasue you are younger than them, and or have less years thatn them, it makes for a really long night. Mind you I do keep patent leather shoes and starch my shirts to almost cardboard stiffness, but this is only becasue I take an immense amount of pride in my appearance. This also reflects in how I handle myself on the court, and during the game. If I miss a call a coach is less likely to get on me if I look the part and act the part, than be some slob who may have profound knowledge of the rules.Times are tough ad good referees are hard to come by.

Jurassic Referee Mon Jan 17, 2005 05:21am

Quote:

Originally posted by Baseman611
If I miss a call a coach is less likely to get on me if I look the part and act the part, than be some slob who may have profound knowledge of the rules.

Yabut,didya ever think that maybe the slob with profound knowledge of the rules might actually miss fewer calls than you because he has a profound knowledge of the rules?

You starch your shirts until they're stiff?

Baseman611 Mon Jan 17, 2005 08:17am

Point being made here, though I would almost bet you would not read into this, is that if you look the part and act the part you are more likely to get some slack then if you look like a slob. I starch and iron my shirts, if wrinkles and sloppy appearance are a part of the appearance officials should uphold then I will no longer do so.

Ry

Baseman611 Mon Jan 17, 2005 08:21am

Jurrasic,
I re-read my post. I was not trying to sound like an ***. NO hard feelings!!!

Chess Ref Mon Jan 17, 2005 09:08am

Observations
 
I am over halfway through my first year and have made some observations about what I have seen and heard.My partner, a 5 year man, says " I'm not doing varsity because I won't play the political game" translates into I am a half-a$$er and don't even have time to read this years rule changes. It also means it's beneath me to be doing freshman girls game with you newby but because I don't play politics I don't get varsity games. When my partner starts telling me how per hour rec ball pays and these games actually cost him money, usually a frosh girls game, what it translates into is instead of a pregame i am going to sit around and complain why i am not doing varsity games. i told that particular partner if you are that interested in money quit reffing and become a CPA.
The examples are endless. The belt buckles are my favorites. What are these refs thinking ? I even saw a Varsity ref with the double foul of white T-shirt and belt Buckle. Knowing the rules is important but you have to be able to be in position to apply them. Out of shape refs can't get into position. I scored a 100 on the test this year. I am on this board everyday reading about rules,etc.
Does that qualify me for more than anything other frosh/JV games ? Nope and I am happy that it doesn't. i grew up with a reverence for High School Officials and to be frank about it 40% of the men I have worked with are lazy, whiny,excusemakers or worse yet just don't care except for the money.



Back In The Saddle Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:02pm

Re: Observations
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Chess Ref
I am over halfway through my first year and have made some observations about what I have seen and heard.My partner, a 5 year man, says " I'm not doing varsity because I won't play the political game" translates into I am a half-a$$er and don't even have time to read this years rule changes. It also means it's beneath me to be doing freshman girls game with you newby but because I don't play politics I don't get varsity games. When my partner starts telling me how per hour rec ball pays and these games actually cost him money, usually a frosh girls game, what it translates into is instead of a pregame i am going to sit around and complain why i am not doing varsity games. i told that particular partner if you are that interested in money quit reffing and become a CPA.
The examples are endless. The belt buckles are my favorites. What are these refs thinking ? I even saw a Varsity ref with the double foul of white T-shirt and belt Buckle. Knowing the rules is important but you have to be able to be in position to apply them. Out of shape refs can't get into position. I scored a 100 on the test this year. I am on this board everyday reading about rules,etc.
Does that qualify me for more than anything other frosh/JV games ? Nope and I am happy that it doesn't. i grew up with a reverence for High School Officials and to be frank about it 40% of the men I have worked with are lazy, whiny,excusemakers or worse yet just don't care except for the money.



That should make it all the easier for you to stand out from the crowd. Keep on doing the right stuff!

dblref Mon Jan 17, 2005 08:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
That's far easier to do if you know two things.

A. Who your partner is.
B. How to reach him/her.

When I get my schedule, it contains my partner(s) name, work number, home number, and cell phone number (if they have one). I can also look in our directory if any information is missing. I try to make all of my contacts at the start of the week -- just in case someone turned back a game and I have a new partner. In rare cases, I can email my assignor and see if my partner has "confirmed" their schedule. We are to required to confirm within 24 hours.

Robmoz Tue Jan 18, 2005 09:59am

Re: Observations
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Chess Ref
Quote:

I am over halfway through my first year and have made some observations about what I have seen and heard.My partner, a 5 year man, says " I'm not doing varsity because I won't play the political game" translates into I am a half-a$$er and don't even have time to read this years rule changes. It also means it's beneath me to be doing freshman girls game with you newby but because I don't play politics I don't get varsity games. When my partner starts telling me how per hour rec ball pays and these games actually cost him money, usually a frosh girls game, what it translates into is instead of a pregame i am going to sit around and complain why i am not doing varsity games. i told that particular partner if you are that interested in money quit reffing and become a CPA.
The examples are endless. The belt buckles are my favorites. What are these refs thinking ? I even saw a Varsity ref with the double foul of white T-shirt and belt Buckle. Knowing the rules is important but you have to be able to be in position to apply them. Out of shape refs can't get into position. I scored a 100 on the test this year. I am on this board everyday reading about rules,etc.
Does that qualify me for more than anything other frosh/JV games ? Nope and I am happy that it doesn't. i grew up with a reverence for High School Officials and to be frank about it 40% of the men I have worked with are lazy, whiny,excusemakers or worse yet just don't care except for the money. [/B]
Too funny. Got a thing against men do we? How do your female partners rate?

Chess Ref Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:16am

Pretty funny Robmoz. i haven't worked with any females yet. i guess my expectations are high for men beacause of the type of men I grew up around. i could whip out all the cliches "get the job done correctly.". Sack up. Things along those lines. My dad once told me "you only need to be about 10 % better than everybody else and you will seem like a star ". Let me make a sexiest statement here. It seems to me sometime in the last twenty years or so men have watched a little too much Lifetime TV and Oprah. Too much concern about feelings and way too many fannypacks and sandals on the men. i grew up around men who got the job done, very little complaining, no excuses and did the best possible job they could physically and mentally. So let me go back to my cave and watch reruns of Captain Kirk until the next Steven Segal movie comes on.

Robmoz Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:43am

Well, since you are only halfway through your first year you might want to really pay attention to the second half to see if your observations change at all. Perhaps you will gain some additional perspectives which will allow you to pass judgement on your fellow officials in a brighter light than the darkness of the cave.

What do your partners say about your faults, flaws, shortcomings or deficiencies? How would you describe the other 60% of your partners? Are Kirk and Segal really icons or role models for you?

Chess Ref Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:16am

I spent one winter in Bay City, one winter and I ran back to California. No Kirk and Segal aren't icons or role models I was trying to be facetious.
I have videotaped several of my games so I see that I still am a chicken with my head cut off but i see that and I work on my shortcomings.

I primarily do Frosh/Jv. My shortcomings are I rush when blowing the whistle-which sometimes leaves my partners wondering what the heck i am doing. So I need to slow down. And communicate with my partners.

As trail I fade when the shot goes up so I am working on taking a step towards the action versus a step back.
Still working on my primary areas of coverage. Sometimes i flat out just reach (2-3x game) and i cause me and partner to look rather follish. Though a Varsity ref talked to me about closing in on a long call.
I have pretty bad communication skills with the coaches. At first I thought the solution was to ignore them, now i am working on the three step method of communication. 1. i hear you coach 2. stop sign . 3. T. though I haven't T a coach yet. The other 60 % are motivated and having fun. It is the 40% that I don't understand. I had a Varsity ref offer to do a Jv game with me last week cause he liked my attitude so My EGO exploded. LOL

Baseman611 Tue Jan 18, 2005 01:04pm

Darkness?Cave?
 
Rob Moz you spoke of darkness, and the light on a cave. Are we refereing to the Parable of the Cave by Plato? That would really be an intetersting way to show others what officiating is like. Always going into the darkness to free the ignorant to see the light..... maybe I am just getting to excited that someone else is into Ancient History like myself.....

Ry


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