BJV game Friday night. While A1 is attempting a free throw after a made basket B6 walks in from the table and comes inside the three point arc. A1 missed the free throw. I called a violation and awarded another free throw and a T for 6 players on the court. Was I correct to call both?

We had allowed several subs to enter prior to the free throw attempt and B6 was not at the table at that time. When he came in the free thrower had the ball.

Yes, it's correct to call the T and allow the FT shooter to have a replacement FT.

Although, I would be tempted to call the T before the "sub" got a chance to get inside the arc, unless the shooter was already in his motion. That insures that the FT shooter gets his 2 FTs as well.

My question would be could it have been prevented?

Both officials should be able to notice this and stop player from coming in.

How? JV game...2 man crew, I assume. If the officials are administering the FT, no one is near the bench or table. If the kid comes walking onto the floor, all you've got from that distance is your voice or your whistle. If the shooter has the ball, it might be unfair to the shooter to use either. Plus, I've lost count of how many times players don't listen to verbal instructions.

I don't know how we could have prevented it. Shooter was in the process of shooting. Our eyes are on the lane and shooter. There was no horn.

Same thing happened to me Friday in a Boys sophomore game.
2 whistle crew, I'm T. 2nd shot. Shooter is starting his motion when the table blows the horn and B6 starts walking onto the court (never made it to the arc, though).
I should have T'd him and let A1's made free throw count. Hind sight....
Instead, I blew my whistle before the shot and told B6 he would have to wait until after the shot. I made A1 reshoot. I really didn't like the mess, and wish I had it to do over again.
I may start addressing this in the captains meeting, I'm not sure.

if the fed would correct their two-man 'shooting foul' mechanics and let the new trail be tableside; this would lessen the chance of someone coming off the bench--and improve official/ coach/ table relations...like the new 3-man mechanics do...

12 times

We used to use the mechanic of having the trail table-side during free throws years ago. The FED put in the current 2-man "shooting foul" mechanics specifically to deal with what you are complaining about. They wanted the trail facing the bench so that he was looking right at the table for possible substitutions, instead of having everything behind him where he couldn't see anything.

Wow!
 

I'm thinking at least 12 times per game or maybe even per quarter (get out of the key, hands off, leave him alone, don't reach across the boundary, pick a spot we're going to shoot free throws, sub, red ball, right here, ad infinitum). Do basketball players have ears?

Re: Wow!
 

We are like the adults in the Peanuts cartoons, whenever we speak all they hear is whawhahwah.:D

What players hear
 

Ok lets break this down Please dont take offense at this.

Trail is standing on the court opposite the bench and is so focused on the lane that he/she doesnot see a player come on to the floor?

There are only 7 players max ever lined up on the paint. Someone needs to be watching the other three/or at least have an idea. The player then walks from table all the way inside the 3 pt arc nd that's when it was noticed?

Lead is so focused on the paint that a player walks all the way into the arc and he doesn't notice it?

There is nothing wrong with stopping the player (even if horn blows and you are doing something else) telling them to get back to the table and you'll let them in when they are supposed to come in. It will send a clear message to the table. the coaches, and the subs.

What you need to keep in mind is that the table may have even told the player to go in. They are not all experts on the sub rule. What if they said "go on in" to player and now you are whacking him up, and it's the crew's fault?


What I am saying is that game awarness, court awareness, and good game management will prevent this stuff from happening.

I would still ask the question, How would I have prevented this? Just because something is right by rule does not make it right. Maybe there's nothing that could have been done but you still need to take a hard look at it...

Would the T here be for 6 on the court or for illegally substituting?

I was the lead in this situation. I did notice him as he walked inside the arc but the shooter was then is his shooting motion. Would you have me blow the whistle then and send him back?


Quite frankly I think he deserved the T. I think that will send a much clearer message to him and his teammates.

Kelvin:

I will ask the question. How would you have prevented this?

Re: Wow!
 

If you're talking 12 times per quarter, or even 12 times per game, it's time to talk with your whistle instead of your voice.

"I"nsures vs "E"nsures:D

No offense at all....

I was not suggesting that the officials wouldn't see it...although they may not depending on the location of the players and the timing. The other three players that are not on the lane could be at the top of the key on the trail's side...30'+ from where the sub would enter the floor and well within the vision of the trail and not near the table.

My main points\ was that even if you saw it, there would be no great way to handle it. Lead is off the endline on table side, trail is slightly below top of key halfway between the FT lane and the sidelie opposite the table. Both are 50' or more away from where the sub likely entered the floor.

A1 was shooting the FT. I don't think we want to blow our whistles or yell (which is what it would take from 50') when A1 is shooting. If A1 misses that FT, we may have disconcerted and penalized A when B is the infracting party.

If A1 doesn't have the ball for the FT...easy solution...do as you say...early whistle or voice might work depending on where you are.

I've stopped many subs from improperly entering the game over the years but this one seems like a situation where there's not much you can do. Once the ball is live and the shooter is shooting, the attention of the officials will naturally shift away from the table.

David M,
You did fine. BJV know better or should. I haven't seen a post yet on how to prevent the problem. You haven't prevented the infraction by chosing to not blow your whistle.

I am about to post two situations that occurred last weekend concerning 6 players, One I whistled, one I did not.

Here is the link.
http://www.officialforum.com/showthr...threadid=17548


[Edited by SamIAm on Jan 11th, 2005 at 02:54 PM]