I assume most of you are familiar with the incident that occured last year when an official blew his whistle inadvertantly but wouldn't admit it. For those of you who do remember I'm curious as to how you think it was handled. (In the interests of full disclosure I am no longer interested in officiating basketball and I am a fan of the "wronged" team). To the best of my knowledge said official has never apologized publically or privately to the young man who was lambasted on national TV because of the official's mistake or to his team. Would it be inappropriate for an official to make such an apology? Are there some sort of legal ramifications? Is there concern that admitting to mistakes undermines an officials authority? Just wondering what other officials think.

Generally officials are not allowed to make public remarks except to clarify a rule in answer to a question from the media, and even this would only occur in an unusual situation. Any statements, apologies or whatever would come from the conference the game was worked under.

Dude, what are you talking about?

Accidental whistles are not uncommon. Whatever the incident was you're referring to, I don't recall it. Mistakes happen. Apologize? Probably nothing more than "Sorry coach, I missed it." But a public apology? No. Legal ramifications? Are you kidding?

Thanks Dan_ref. That makes sense that the conference would want to keep pretty tight control over what officials say so I guess my beef is with the conference. BktBallRef-sorry I wasn't clear. The incident in question was more serious than just an inadvertant whistle. The official in question denied he blew the whistle until video proof surfaced days later. That is what I would think the conference should apologize for.

Hmmmmm
 

Mr. ThadBrown:

You are making far too many assumptions and you know what they say about assumptions.

When was the last time that a disgruntled fan, or more specifically YOU, demanded a public apology for a player of your team for making a turnover or shooting an airball or missing an uncontested lay-up?

Bottom Line: Players hate making mistakes: shooting airballs or missing lay-ups, but these happen and most people accept them as part of the game. Officials hate making mistakes but they are human and it also happens on rare occasions. Some fans imply that officials intentionally kick calls to cheat for a team. That is a stab at the integrity of officials. Sadly it appears that you have stooped that low. I am dissappointed and embarrassed for you.

Re: Hmmmmm
 

This was not just some inadvertant whistle. Well, it was, but then it blew up in a major way.

The official sounded his whistle to acknowledge a time-out request following a basket late in the game. But for some reason that I don't recall exactly (some reason why he shouldn't have granted the time-out) he chose to play on and ignore his own whistle.

When he heard the whistle for the time-out, the kid that got T'd came onto the floor (in the bench area) whooping it up 'cause his team had just taken the lead or something akin to it. The official kept quiet about the whistle and allowed the crew to assess the T.

The official continued to deny that he'd sounded the whistle until a local tv station that broadcast the game was able to demonstrate that the official had indeed blown his whistle.

As I recall, the official had also denied blowing his whistle to his supervisor. The league slapped the guy around pretty good, took a few games away and denied him any conference tournament games.

All this is well documented.

Sure, it was just an inadvertant whistle. But the official's shameful behavior after the whistle allowed the player in question to be torn apart on national television and very literally cost the team the game.

So give thadbrown his due on this. He's got a legitimate gripe. Of course, he should have moved on with his life a long time ago too. ;)

It was BYU @ New Mexico on January 26, 2004 and the official was Lonnie Dixon. His behavior was shameful. He lied on the court about the incident, lied to the supervisor after the game, lied during the conference investigation, and finally was proven to have no integrity when a local TV station had a tape of him blowing the whistle. We talked about this last year on the forum.
Here's a link: http://www.byucougars.com/Filing.jsp?ID=0000004692
Personally, I believe that he should have apologized, not for the mistaken whistle, but for his poor behavior after that.
The conference should have dropped him this year. How can any coach take what he says as truthful? I sure wouldn't want him as a partner on my game. I can't trust him.


PS Why is he bringing this up now? It was almost a year ago, let it go.

Yikes!! Guys, do we want to be calling out other officials by name in a public forum by calling them shameful and other things? Whatever happened, it doesn't seem like a real good idea to be hanging this guy out to dry like this.

When the ACC refs blow a call, the supervisor of officials has them phone the coach and apologize to them. I think the theory is that they don't want the coaches to think that a given official is holding a grudge against a particular coach or team, and by ackowledging their mistakes the refs will learn and improve.

For this, yes.
If he simply blew a call, I'd have his back, but for dishonesty...let him hang.

Re: Re: Hmmmmm
 

What? Cost them the game? No.

In an incredible finish, BYU guard Kevin Woodberry tipped in a Cougar miss to tie the game with 3.8 seconds left. A technical foul was then called on the Cougars as Mark Bigelow came onto the court from the bench to celebrate the shot, sending the Lobos' Troy DeVries to the line for two free shots (later scrutiny on video tape showed a whistle was blown after the Woodberry bucket, which prompted Bigelow onto the court; however, the officials did not acknowledge the whistle and consequently Bigelow was called for the technical foul). Amazingly, DeVries missed both attempts, leaving the game tied with 3.8 seconds still on the clock.

Shameful actions by the ref goes without saying but there is no need to persecute this man further, let it go.

For someone to say that they would have his back (under the right conditions) but then offers to let him hang ---- that is shameful :(

I cannot even believe what I am reading. I guess you guys are either the assignor or the coach in the situation. Because how in the hell you know of what took place in detail and not being either party is suspect? For anyone to talk about 3rd and 4th hand information and say the official was shameful for not admitting something is shameful to me. Unless you were in the locker room or the hallway after the game, not sure how you know who and when someone admitted to anything. I hope you are not taking some media story and trying to come to some conclusion. Do you know what this official might have said the next time they saw each other too?

I think all of us should be ashamed of the actions of people ripping another official without possibly knowing everything that happen. But this would not be the first time.

Peace

wow
 

Jrut,

I don't always agree with you, but this is how I read this situation as well. It's best to mind my own business and withold judgements when I don't have first hand knowledge. And, when it comes to officiating, if I do have first hand knowledge of another official and do pass judgement, I keep it to myself.

Hopefully this is the last time I agree with someone who quotes Bill Maher!

Yeah, and that right condition would be an HONEST MISTAKE. However, the conference released a report about a week after this game confirming the FACT that the official lied. Now that I can't support. If you wish to stand with those who have no integrity just because your shirt looks the same that's your choice, but how dare you criticize me for standing up for honesty.

Re: wow
 

I really do not care if you agree with what I say or not (or Bill Maher). If I was there and worked on the game with the accused official, I still would not come here and voice my opposition to the actions that took place.

Peace

Oh puuulleeeezzzzeeee!!!

Were you on the game? Are you on the conference staff? Where is this report?

I really do not care if you think an official lied or not. I know I would not be here calling an official names that I did not work with or was not on the game. Of course we have all seen things we are not proud of as officials, but we do not come here and start saying an official has no integrity when we were not there. I really do not give a damn if a conference made a comment and accused an official of anything. Conferences have thrown officials under the bus before and this I am sure will not be the last time. I think you should be very careful what you say, because when a situation happens to you, do not cry foul when individuals come here and question your integrity or your honesty.

Peace

Rut,
You need to read and accept the truth. You are wrong on this one.

http://www.cougarblue.com/modules.ph...ticle&sid=3397

Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 08:11 PM |

MWC admits official blew whistle at end of New Mexico game


One official suspended for actions at end of New Mexico game

Patrick Ridgell
THE DAILY HERALD

It’s official. It wasn’t Mark Bigelow’s fault. That’s what the Mountain West Conference said Thursday. It issued a press release that stated “an inadvertent whistle” prompted Bigelow, who had fouled out, to leave the bench, run on to the floor and interfere with New Mexico player after Kevin Woodberry scored to tie BYU’s Jan. 26 game in Albuquerque with 3.8 seconds to play.

Officials called a technical foul on Bigelow. New Mexico’s Troy DeVries missed both free throws. On the ensuing inbound DeVries hit Danny Granger with a long pass, and Granger scored the game-winning basket.

One of the officials working the game, who the MWC would not specify, has been released from his next two assignments and banned from working the MWC tournament, March 11-13 in Denver. The officials who worked the game are Dick Cartmell, Lonnie Dixon and Bob Staffen.

BYU coach Steve Cleveland said Thursday that he thought the suspended official is scheduled to work BYU’s game with New Mexico in Provo on Feb. 21, but will be reassigned.

The release said that if the officials recognized the inadvertent whistle, play would have been stopped and Bigelow would not have received a technical foul.

“The Mountain West Conference expects the highest level of performance and conduct from each of its constituents,” MWC commissioner Craig Thompson said in the release. “These standards cannot be compromised. While this is an unfortunate situation, the game officials must be held to the same degree of accountability as the student-athletes, coaches and administrators.”

Nevadaref,

What you do not understand is the devil is in the details. I do not care what the report said, you were not there. You were not on the game. You do not work for that staff. You have no right to come here and rip officials about apologizing, when you do not know all the details. Do you know if any of the officials had a phone conversation with the coaches? Are you aware of any correspondence between any of the officials and the conference?

The problem you do not seem to understand is I do not care about the details of the game. I do not care what who messed up or how. I do care about your sorry behind coming here and ripping a fellow official and saying they have no integrity when you have no idea what was said after the fact. I have seen many situations where the wrong official is accused of something and was not even on the freakin game. You behavior is a serious violation of ethics and you want to talk about honesty and integrity. It is like passing judgment on someone for violating one of the Ten Commandments and you are violating 3 of them yourself. You have got a lot of freakin nerve if you ask me.

Peace

Oh, I thought that this information came from the Mountain West Conference, not the Warren Commission.
But spin the conspiracy theory if you wish.

It has nothing to do about some loyalty to a brethren official, nor about standing up for honesty. This is about acceptence and forgiveness....love for your fellow man should be unconditional. Sheesh, whatever happened to living by the Golden Rule or (at the risk of foisting my beliefs) the 10 Commandments?

Were you there? Did you hear for yourself the comments from Mountain West Conference? Or are you just reading a reporter's interpretation on what was said? Remember, these reports are always correct. But then again none of that matters, you were working the game. Oh I almost forgot you were not working the game.

I rest my case.

Peace

The call resulted in two missed free throws (see previous post) how did THAT cause them to lose the game?

I didn't see the game, but the thought that comes to mind is this:

If the whistle was blown (either inadvertently or to grant a timeout), how does that give the player permission to come on the court? If I call a timeout, and a player comes running onto the court, I'm probably going to T him up for leaving the bench.

this is a good point, and my point at the time, too. A whistle could have been for anything. If I blow my whistle for a traveling call, and a bench player comes screaming onto the court, he's risking a T. Not saying I would have called this one, but the fact that there may or may not have been an inadvertent whistle doesn't absolve this player of responsibility.

Hmmmmmm........

Nevada? :D

Re: Re: wow
 

Although I agree that one should not rip another official for the basic reason that it is not possible to understand fully all aspects of the situation, you prove quite simply why I dislike your posts. I don't care what you think of it or not. Abrasiveness, whether someone agrees with you or not, is not a positive quality. I can't imagine how this type of attitude doesn't bleed into dealing with coaches, players, administrators, table staff and partners.

Let me ask a question. Why the abrasiveness with the response to my post?

Re: Re: Re: wow
 

I do not consider what I said to you as abrasive. You made a statement I responded. I am not supposed to respond to you now? I also do not remember that you and I ever had a conversation that meant anything to me either. But I guess that might be the very reason I do not remember any of your post. To each his own I guess. ;)

Peace