Ask when it happens, at the next dead ball, some other time, like a time out?

I didn't ask for one particularly strange call and now my assistant coach, my own 12 year old daughter, won't let me live it down. It was the recent Christmas tourny game. We were inbounding the ball in a side line play, and hadn't released the ball yet. An official called a 3 second violation on us and turned the ball over to the other team. The defense was in the lane, my players were lined up at the sidelines waiting for the ball.

I didn't know what to say or how or when. The official just handed the ball to the other team and play resumed. I was shocked. Now my daughter thinks I have the capacity to be a wimpy coach and I should have at least pointed out the fact that the defense was in the lane not us. I didn't want to make anyone look bad, so I kept my mouth shut. These were two very new refs, that looked hardly older then my kids so I figured I'd cut them some slack. They both had quick whistles and called fouls left and right on both teams. It was an endless game because the clock stopped every 5 seconds, or so it seemed.

So when is it best to say something, or did I do okay and say nothing?

thanks,
Coach G

The best time if you do decide to ask a question is at a dead ball. If not, the official will be into the game and more than likely not answer you. Ask them nicely if the can explain the call. If you are nice to them, they will be nice to you.

Coach, if you're asking how you make your 12 year old daughter think you're not a wimp, I don't have an answer.

If you're asking how do you deal with 13 year old refs at a rec game I do have an answer: leave them alone.

So on balance you done good. Your kid will realize this in, oh I dunno, maybe 8 or 10 years or so. ;)

Well, they weren't really 13, maybe more like 20, but to me everyone is starting to look younger and younger. Good Gosh, am I really 44? I left them alone anyway. Anyone that gets out there with my team deserves a little credit for all the running they have to do to keep up with them. They don't like to run my offense yet, just throw the ball, dribble or heave it at the baaket, typical 11 year old basketball league stuff.

thanks!

And thanks to you coach, for giving your time to these kids.

WTF is wrong with being 44? :D

Just think, in 6 years you will be 50. :-p

Perspective from the sidelines
 

Coach G:

Welcome to the world of rec ball. Since you mentioned in a follow-up that the referess were about 20 years old, it's very possible they are fairly new and learning the game and rules. (A lot of rec ball officials I've seen in my area fall into this category).

As to asking about the call, the key is to be polite. As you have probably seen from following the posts here, officials are more receptive to a calm, politely phrased question. "Why was that three seconds? We hadn't inbounded the ball yet." . Even if they still kick the call, at least you've tried to get an explanation in a calm manner.

Not that I'm advocating ignoring missed calls, but at this particular level, emphasis on learning the game should first and foremost. A call like this usualy isn't the end of the world in an environment where players and officials are all learning the rules at the same time.

Hope this helps.

And you'll still be 15.

Hey junior, that's the point.

To get older.

If you don't believe me try holding your breath for a couple of minutes. Let us know how it goes.

From a ref who's under 20, you did do the right thing.

Although you were frusterated about the call, you took it like a man, and set an example for your assistants and your team.

Good Job :cool:

And you'll still be 15.


I was just joking :-p

First of all, there is no 3-second violation during an inbounds play. He may have called a 5-second violation, and either mis-called the violation or perhaps you mis-understood him.

If he indeed called a 3-second violation, you should call time-out and ask for an explanation. If the referee recognizes his error, you should not be charged with a timeout. Be polite, and ask something like "Could you explain why it is a violation to be in the lane during a throw-in?"

Yea, the looking younger and younger thing. Even you at 44, look young to this old codger!

Thanks for all the input. I think next time I'll politely inquire about the call. Although, with 6th grade ball, one or even several calls won't make or break a game. I figure we usually get away with more then what is called so it works out in the end. This one was unique since both teams and both coaches looked at each other and the officials and no one moved. They finally yelled at the other team to get the ball.

As for the age thing, I'm sure they young officials made me, a extraordinaryily young 44, feel old by calling me "maam" at the end of the game, as in "your team played great defense maam, they're really coming along".

More Clairol needed, or I just reminded the 20 somehthings of their mothers and they were REALLY trying to be polite. Either way, I've never had a bad experience with an official yet in the past 6 years. Some even look forward to my teams from year to year knowing I take the players that no ono wants. I don't know any personally, but some seem like old friends every year when we take the court.

thanks for the replies everyone. This is a great board for a lurking coach, so much info, so little time!

Coach G

Wish all coaches were with u but from my perspective as a coach/referee/player/spectator depending on the clock if its close to a quarter brake or half time or if u are planning on calling a time out i would wait until then and calmy approach him/her. But if not next times theres a dead ball close to your coaching box.

CoachG,

First, make sure you ask for a timeout and an explanation of the call. You should not be charged with the timeout if called is corrected. Always approach the officials in a sportmanlike manner. I can't stress this enough!!!!!
Second, study the rule book and make sure you have a good basis for questioning a call. You would be really surprised how many coaches, players, and fans that think they know the rules when really they don't have a clue. Last, realize that officials make mistakes some times. It sounds like you had some young guys learning the game who probably made a mistake. There is no three second count on an inbounds play. By knowing the rule book you could point this out to an official. Remember, officiating is a profeesion where perfection is expected every game and we all know that's not realistic. I think you handled the situation well by setting a good example of accepting a mistake without going crazy. GREAT JOB!!

Coach Gbert:

Please e-mail me privately. I'd like to discuss a couple of things with you, out of the public eye.

juulie aka rainmaker

Here's how not to do it: I blow the whistle and call a pushing foul against A1 during a rebound. B's coach jumps off the bench and starts complaining wildly about the call and how could I have possibly seen that. I calmly stopped at the table and said "A23, pushing, B's ball". I gave a smile and nod to Coach B. It's the first time a coach has apologized to me for a call I made. I didn't T her becuase I knew what was going on and I wanted to see her reaction when I called it her way. However, I am sure there are many out there who would have rewarded her with a "whack".

Question back at you Coach -

Websters Dictinary says a Coach is; "a person who trains or directs athletes or athletic teams"

Where in coaching mechanics/process does it suggest that the coach takes the responsibility of questioning officials and their calls?

In my experience I see coach's all the time "work" officials more than their players or the game. Where does that come from?

Hey!!! Let's not be casting stones at "senior" officials. I have the coach beat by 17 years!:D

[/B] [/Quote] Hey!!! Let's not be casting stones at "senior" officials. I have the coach beat by 17 years!:D
[/B][/QUOTE]

Ha Ha ha :)

Ref Daddy,

I totally agree with your last point. Last night I worked a Varsity Boys game. Visitors were up by 14 with 2 1/2 minutes left and lost by 2. The V coach was upset with us the entire final 2 minutes. After the game my partner remarked that if the coach quit worrying about us and coached his team the final 2 minutes he probably would have won. In the last 2 minutes of the game his team threw away about 4 passes (I mean, directly OOBs) and his team got called for 2 PC fouls because they continued to play extremely up tempo. I'm not judging them, but I thought my partner's comment was interesting and a good one for me (I coach soccer so I will remember that).

Coach whenever it is a question about misapplying a rule, like your 3 second OOB call, speak up to the nearest official respectfully, or ask for a timeout to correct it, or at least to get an explanation.

As for judgement calls, at your age level, I'd ask questions based on teaching your players what they did wrong. Screens, box outs, attacking the defender with the off arm, and bellying up on the shooter are pretty common fouls, that might lead to a,"What did they do wrong-type question."

Rule of thumb for most officials, we don't feel obligated to acknowledge a coach making statements. Treat it like Jeopardy and put it in the form of a question.:D

Now, many people have said in their responses taht the coach should call a time out to discuss the call. I'm all for that, although I've never had a coach do that, they seem to prefer standing and screaming ;). But back on topic, I admit that I have screwed up quite few calls (this may be a shock to most people :p) and as soon as I make the call I realize this, but people are saying that the coach should try and get the officials to correct the call. Now I've never reversed one of my calls, if I know I made a bad one, while the coach is venting, I'll apologize to him/her for the bad call, but once I make the call, I live with the consequences.

If the officials were to correct the call, what is the procedure they would have to follow??

Speaking of bad calls, some officials say to do it and some not. When you make a bad call should you tell the coach or not?

10 More to Go :)

Now it all depends how the coach reacts. If he's jumping up and down screaming, I'm going to give him the stop sign, but if he asks nicely, I'll tell him I may have messed up the call, and apologize for it. Usually they'll understand and drop it, actually I haven't had a situation where I've apologized and the coach kept going on about it.

Are you talking about not seeing a foul or violation, getting the foul or violation wrong, or misapplying a rule?

I hope you are not saying that if you called the ball OOB off the wrong team, or had a back court on a throw in, or called 3 seconds on a throw in, like in this case, you would not correct it.

As for fixing it, a quick explanation, inadvertent whistle and get it back in play.

I agree that if you do decide that you blew it the accidental whistle is the method that must be used to fix it. Give the ball to the team that had control or use the AP arrow if neither team had control.

However, I must disagree with those who have stated that the coach should not be charged with the time-out if the official changes the call.
The coach is certainly welcome to request a time-out to discuss a call, and more power to him if the officials decide to change it, but the time-out must remain charged to his team unless it fits within those specific things in 5-8-4. Those items are a 2-10 correctable error, a timing mistake, a scoring mistake, or an AP arrow mistake.
This time-out should also be requested through the scorer at the table just to be precise.
So in the case of the incorrect 3-second violation during the throw-in, which clearly does NOT fall within the purview of that rule, the officials should change the call, award the ball back to the throwing team, but also allow the time-out to remain charged to that team.

Had this happen in a varsity boys game. 2 whistle. I'm L, and partner turns around briefly to address V coach in H front court. While his head is turned, V1 comes up and knocks the ball out of H1's hand and into the backcourt. Partner just sees the ball go flying into the backcourt where H1 retrieves it.
Tweet, "Over and back."
Crowd and H coach go bonkers. Partner quickly realizes he may have missed something, so he calls me over. When I saw he had his head turned, I stretched my area to cover the ball for the moment and it paid off. He reversed his call and we gave the ball to H, not a peep from anyone.

Adam

this is a great example of: "Coach, you're distracting me"!

I agree that you should ask the ref at the next dead ball or call a timeout and talk with the ref in a respectful manner.

I became a licensed official ( in part ) due to these type of situations. I was coaching our 5th grade girls team a couple of years ago when an official did not apply the rules correctly. One of our players fouled an opposing player while they were in the act of shooting. The official indicated that the player was fouled in the act of shooting and there would be 2 FT administered. The player shot the first FT and it did not hit anything so the official blows his whistle and gives us the ball. The opposing coach calls the official over and ask him what the call was and he said that it was a new rule from the state. The coach ( very nicely ) said that he had never heard of it and called me over to the conversation . I told the official that I thought that this was incorrect and only applied to a bonus situation and that the girl should get a second FT . He disagreed and called it that way the whole game. I never let my girls know about the problem and just had them concentrate on playing the game. This was a 4,5,6 grade tournament and game management could not be found. I found later that game management was contacted and the official was told of the proper ruling by a licensed official .
I really just concentrate on coaching the kids unless there is a rule that is not being applied correctly . I then ask the official during a timeout or a deadball to explain what they called . I try to do this as discretely as possible as to not get the crowd or my kids involved. I don't question any judgement calls and let the kids play.

Probably more than 2 cents worth .

This is when I listen
 

It seems like the vast majority of coaches are fairly excitable types. I generally tune those folks out, responding when its appropriate but giving them no quarter.

If the coach is judicious with his comments/questions, doesn't make a face of disgust at my call, is respectful and measured, I'm more than willing to discuss or explain to him.

I've recently added to my bag the "I may have missed that one coach" comment. I've used it twice so far this season (about 15 games) and both times it's gone over well.

When a coach is coaching his team, not me, I find myself giving them a little more latitude with the box and any genuine concerns they bring to me.