The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Techniques for dealing with coaches (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/17240-techniques-dealing-coaches.html)

Back In The Saddle Mon Dec 27, 2004 05:55pm

Since it's been kind of a slow news day here on the forum, let me throw out a question I've been pondering this season. My goal this year is to master the art of dealing with coaches. Too lofty a goal for such a young punk? Sure. But I gotta start somewhere :)

I have had a couple of people share favorite techniques for dealing with coaches with me this year. I've tried one so far, and had decent success with it. I'm going to try the next one when things start up again in January.

What are your favorite tricks, tools and techniques for dealing with coaches?

JRutledge Mon Dec 27, 2004 06:25pm

The best advice is to simply be you. You cannot emulate someone else if you do not fit their personality. If you do not mind answering questions, answer questions. If you do not like saying much of anything, then do not say much. When a coach addresses me I usually react based on his/her behavior. If they come to me in a calm way, I will answer in a calm way. If they try to intimidate me or my partners, then I am much more direct and firm about what I say. Sometimes I will not even answer a question, just address their behavior. All you can do is simply be yourself. Nothing more, nothing less.

Peace

BamaRef Mon Dec 27, 2004 06:48pm

I think JRutledge is right. My personality is not one that can match wits with people. I'm better off saying very little to coaches and players. However, I can still be professional when talking to them. Short, direct statements work best for me. It's like talking with my wife. I'll never win an arguement so I just say my little bit and move on. I love her anyway.

Back In The Saddle Mon Dec 27, 2004 06:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
The best advice is to simply be you. You cannot emulate someone else if you do not fit their personality. If you do not mind answering questions, answer questions. If you do not like saying much of anything, then do not say much. When a coach addresses me I usually react based on his/her behavior. If they come to me in a calm way, I will answer in a calm way. If they try to intimidate me or my partners, then I am much more direct and firm about what I say. Sometimes I will not even answer a question, just address their behavior. All you can do is simply be yourself. Nothing more, nothing less.

Peace

Jeff, I completely agree that if I go out there and try to be somebody else, that's a recipe for failure. I have to have my own self-confidence, sense of humor, personality and style. However, I think that is an issue more to do with how we do what we do.

But everybody picks up techniques along the way. Those have to do with the what to do (and not do), rather than how to do it.

That's the kind of thing I'm asking about.

Just an example, there was a thread recently about a technique that involved introducing yourself to the head coach before the game and telling him that you're willing to talk with him during the game. That is a technique that another official passed along to me that has worked for me. Another senior official in my associate suggested that we look up the coachs' names before we arrive at the gym so that we can greet them by name. That is a technique that has had positive benefits for him.

Back In The Saddle Mon Dec 27, 2004 06:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BamaRef
I think JRutledge is right. My personality is not one that can match wits with people. I'm better off saying very little to coaches and players. However, I can still be professional when talking to them. Short, direct statements work best for me. It's like talking with my wife. I'll never win an arguement so I just say my little bit and move on. I love her anyway.
I should be talking to her about techniques for winning arguements! :D

Short, direct statements is another technique that I could benefit from.

gordon30307 Mon Dec 27, 2004 08:03pm

This is what works for me. But not always......

1. Generally they want to be listened to. If they say, for example, could you watch the handchecking simply say I'll watch for it or something like that.

2. If they want a call on ball and your primary is off ball simply tell them you were "off ball" and didn't see what happened but I'm sure my partner got it right.

3. If they question a call ask them what they saw. I then will tell them what I saw and we play on.

4. If I'm the trail and the Coach is talking to me about a call that he disagrees with (while the ball is live) I'll say Coach I can't talk now but when I get a chance I'll talk to you about it. I do find a way to talk briefly about the issue some time during the game.

5. If my partner is having a problem with the Coach I'll try to be tableside whenever possible. Good cop bad cop really works. Today I Teed the Coach and I managed to stay opposite the table for about 3 minutes of playing time and my partner made sure he kept his "seat belt buckled". When I did end up back tableside I had no further trouble with him.




JRutledge Mon Dec 27, 2004 08:06pm

BITS,

To be honest with you I really do not think about it. I answer questions the best I can. I tell coaches when they are about to cross the line (which helps a lot in not giving Ts). I just do not go out of my way to have a conversation with them. If they ask a reasonable question, I will answer. If they ask a really stupid question and try to accuse, I just look at them. All of this fits into my personality and the way I am views. I very seldom get coaches that continue to try me. Sometimes all you have to do is put the whistle in your mouth and the will get the message.

Peace

tomegun Tue Dec 28, 2004 07:09am

I have to cover the whole spectrum when dealing with coaches. Sometimes I will be silent and sometimes I will talk a lot. I will laugh when something is funny and I will issue a T when it is needed. I will be very careful to not do or say anything that sells out my partner or gives that impression. I say that because coaches look at what we do to determine how to approach us. We should study and learn the different types of coaches to understand what we must do for every game. There are many coaches that don't want a safe ref. They want to communicate with us but they don't expect every comment to be answered. When I talk to others and put it into my own words I tell them that if a coach knows you are (crazy) willing to do anything and fair they will (more times than not) not act in such a manner to cause problems. Consistent officials have to say less the more they work. This is a good subject and one I like to talk about. I would just warn anyone about going into a game and trying a new technique. The wrong approach in the wrong game could turn out to make a situation worse.

ChrisSportsFan Tue Dec 28, 2004 08:28am

I have recently been enlightened to the fact that sometimes coaches say stuff because they are fighting for their players and hoping to get a reaction out of them. Of course they are hoping the next borderling call goes their way but recently on more than one occasion, I've offered a short explaination to coaches and they respond with someting like; "I know" or "I understand" or even a "hey thanks".

Just be confident of what you called and they'll oftentimes fall in line.

TimTaylor Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:25pm

A lot of good points in previous posts...these are what I try for:

1. Be yourself - don't try to emulate a behavior that's unnatural for you.

2. Be approchable, not aloof or arrogant. Greet them pregame in a friendly manner, let them know you'll respond to legitimate questions as game situations allow.

3. Be fair but firm during the game - let them know you're listening to their concerns. Often a simple "coach, we'll watch for it" will work wonders. At the same time, let them know when their attitude or actions start to cross the line - try to prevent situations from escalating to the point you have to penalize, but don't hesitate to penalize when it's justified.

4. Keep your cool - no matter what. Remember that you are the voice of reason in an otherwise chaotic world. If penalizing their conduct becomes necessary, do so in a calm, cool, unemotional manner as possible (no Jake O'Donnell histrionics).

Forksref Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:32pm

If you smile, you can tell em anything and they will be more likely to accept it. Like Dick Gregory said many years ago, "If you get em laughing, you can tell 'em anything!"

jeffpea Thu Dec 30, 2004 02:17pm

As a former D1 asst. basketball coach, I can tell you that coaches simply want to feel like they're being listened to and will receive some feedback.

You shouldn't feel like you need to respond to every statement they make. One of the most overlooked skills an official needs when dealing with coaches is.......listening. You have to learn when a coach has a specific question/complaint or if they are just venting their frustration. Respond to specifics questions with an answer ("will you watch #34? he just set 2 illegal screens"). Ignore or just pass on generic statements ("they're just pushing us around all over the place").

Sometimes the coach just starts saying things that you can't ignore and need to address. Recently, I called on player control foul against Team A's best player in transition that the coach didn't like. On the ensuing possession, my partner called an illegal screen on Team B. Team A's coach starts yelling (with me right next to him) "at least we've got him to balance the crew out!". I turned to the coach and said, "Coach, you can't just start yelling crazy comments outloud to no one in particular. If you want to talk about my last call, I'd be happy to discuss it. But you can't start yelling those crazy things". He disagreed and simply said - "just ignore me!". "Alright. But I'm not going to ignore you very much longer", I said. Four mintues later he apologized after calming down and we talked about my player control foul.

This is not to illustrate that I'm the best at dealing w/ coaches during a game, but I tell this story to illustrate my point - LISTENING to coaches is a "technique" that officials should pay more attention to. You've got to know when to respond before you even decide what to say.

David B Thu Dec 30, 2004 02:33pm

Good point
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jeffpea
As a former D1 asst. basketball coach, I can tell you that coaches simply want to feel like they're being listened to and will receive some feedback.

You shouldn't feel like you need to respond to every statement they make. One of the most overlooked skills an official needs when dealing with coaches is.......listening. You have to learn when a coach has a specific question/complaint or if they are just venting their frustration. Respond to specifics questions with an answer ("will you watch #34? he just set 2 illegal screens"). Ignore or just pass on generic statements ("they're just pushing us around all over the place").

Sometimes the coach just starts saying things that you can't ignore and need to address. Recently, I called on player control foul against Team A's best player in transition that the coach didn't like. On the ensuing possession, my partner called an illegal screen on Team B. Team A's coach starts yelling (with me right next to him) "at least we've got him to balance the crew out!". I turned to the coach and said, "Coach, you can't just start yelling crazy comments outloud to no one in particular. If you want to talk about my last call, I'd be happy to discuss it. But you can't start yelling those crazy things". He disagreed and simply said - "just ignore me!". "Alright. But I'm not going to ignore you very much longer", I said. Four mintues later he apologized after calming down and we talked about my player control foul.

This is not to illustrate that I'm the best at dealing w/ coaches during a game, but I tell this story to illustrate my point - LISTENING to coaches is a "technique" that officials should pay more attention to. You've got to know when to respond before you even decide what to say.

A good story to illustrate. I also see many times when an official doesn't understand the coach is just talking and not complaining directly.

I see many officials get upset with a coach and the coach was never talking to the official, he was talking to his players. A good official realizes the difference.

Also, a good official will know when the coach is wanting a T and when he is just wanting to complain.

Of course, they get very mad when they want the T and we just ignore them. (but that's another thread)

Thanks
David

JRutledge Thu Dec 30, 2004 02:48pm

This is not an official's problem. This is the coachÂ’s responsibility to behave in a manner that is acceptable. Officials are not the stepping stool for whatever the coach wants to blame them for. If the coach wants and answer, do not ask questions and then not listen to the answer. Officials have a right to react to coachÂ’s behavior. All officials do not respond the same way to coach's behavior. I have no sympathy for coaches that act like total a##es and then the officials call them on it. I agree that officials should learn to listen more, but coaches really need to act in a much more sporting fashion. When you start complaining from the tip off to the buzzer, you lose credibility really quickly with officials even caring about what you are talking about. I have no problem with coaches complaining about some real obvious situations or unusual plays, but not complain on ever dribble of the basketball.

Peace

PS2Man Thu Dec 30, 2004 03:35pm

jeffpea,

Coaches at that level I am sure behave differently than those at the levels most of us officiate at. I am not a D1 official by any means. I do work college ball a lot. I do not see the same behavior from the college coaches as I do high school varsity coaches. The behavior gets worse when you start talking about JV and freshman coaches. Even the best officials do not want to hear all kinds of comments of coaches. When I do work games at the freshman level or lower, those coaches behavior is the worst of all.

jeffpea Thu Dec 30, 2004 03:59pm

PS2Man -- I do not officiate at the D1 level now. I was speaking specifically to high school and college coaches.

Certainly I don't advocate letting a coach make a comment about every play for an entire game without some type of response from you as an official. If you have a coach that continually comments/complains every trip down the floor, you need to "nip that in the bud". Did you ever think that the coach might feel as if you didn't hear him and that's why you didn't respond? So he makes the same comments the next trip. If he gets the same no-response from an official, he probably may continue his attempts. At some point a simple - "coach, I've heard you the last 3 trips. I'll call it when it's there. Now let us work." - needs to take place. If it continues, then the "I'd be happy to talk about a couple of plays with you, but we can't discuss every single call" speach needs to occur. A simple nod or physical acknowledgement from an official may go a long way to avoiding the scenario I've just described.

All I'm saying is that you have to listen to what the coach is saying before you decide what to say. You cannot go to either extreme: respond to every comment/question (you will both miss the entire game that way) or completely ignore the coach (he get's more frustrated with you as you get more frustrated with him).

My advice? Just listen better. Is it a legitimate question/point he is raising? Is it just frustration? Or is that the way he normally handles himself? The best officials tend to know how to respond best because they're able to determine why the coach is saying what they're saying.

Hopefully a good pregame would include shared information about the coaches in the game (maybe you've had them before or have received a "scouting report" from others) that can help prepare you in how to respond.


PS2Man Thu Dec 30, 2004 04:18pm

Jeff I agree that listening will help but it is not the official's responsibility to completely understand the beef of a coach. It is the coach's responsibility to communicate in such a way that their intentions are understood. You can listen all day long and misunderstand the message. I know it can be difficult to not understand a coach because I am focused on the game not what the coach is saying.

I see you have a unique perspective as a coach to this issue. I welcome that opinion. I just think in any forms of communication the person trying to get their point across has the burden to speak in a way that the person they are talking to understands where they are coming from. Listening can solve a lot of the problem. I just think coaches need to watch their tone and their body language if they want their message to be accepted.

jeffpea Thu Dec 30, 2004 04:38pm

PS2Man - As a Communications major in college, I know that the message that is received can be different from what the sender intended. Furthermore, discussion boards like this are not the best way to communciate ideas or thoughts for the same reason.

Now that I have been on both sides of the issue at hand (coach and official), I hated it when officials would take the "don't talk to me becasue I am always right and I know it all"-approach and I certainly don't like it when coaches complain about every call and do it for the benefit of the crowd.

The best way to avoid these situations is to communicate with each other, albeit within reason.

The Cliff-notes version of my advice: Linsten better. Every comment doesn't need a response; smart-aleck retorts don't work; and simply ignoring the problem doesn't provide a resolution. Use the following progression: "I hear you, coach"; "I'll watch for it, coach"; "that's it - I've heard enough, coach"; then "whack" - T.

JRutledge Thu Dec 30, 2004 05:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jeffpea
PS2Man - As a Communications major in college, I know that the message that is received can be different from what the sender intended. Furthermore, discussion boards like this are not the best way to communciate ideas or thoughts for the same reason.

Now that I have been on both sides of the issue at hand (coach and official), I hated it when officials would take the "don't talk to me becasue I am always right and I know it all"-approach and I certainly don't like it when coaches complain about every call and do it for the benefit of the crowd.

The best way to avoid these situations is to communicate with each other, albeit within reason.

The Cliff-notes version of my advice: Linsten better. Every comment doesn't need a response; smart-aleck retorts don't work; and simply ignoring the problem doesn't provide a resolution. Use the following progression: "I hear you, coach"; "I'll watch for it, coach"; "that's it - I've heard enough, coach"; then "whack" - T.

Part of the problem with this entire discussion is the fact it is too general. I agree that officials should not be a smart-aleck when responding. But I have had coaches go ballistic and you say nothing at all. Larry Brown got upset and the official did not say anything to him. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. We are accused of taking sides when there are not logical reasons to be seen that way.

I T'd up a freshman coach the other day and he claims that was the fastest I he was ever T'd up. I did not make any comments back to him. I answered many of his questions when I had a change. I had his assistant screaming at me as if I really need to explain anything to an assistant. He came to me at halftime after he was T'd up and insisted on talking to me directly. I told him, "This is not the time. I will talk to you later." All that did was make him raise his voice and do more to try to show me up. I think I showed a great deal of restraint and professionalism and not getting upset. The funny thing is that I was being observed by the assignor of this league and the assignor asked me about the situation. This person is a D1 official and knows a lot more than I do about officiating and someone I respect very much. He told me to bring the coaches together and ask this coach "what he wanted to talk about." He also went on to say, "you need to tell him that we cannot talk on my time without the other coach being present." Amazingly when I did this the coach did not comment the rest of the game. He went back to coaching and behaved like a human being should dealing with kids. You would have thought that I did nothing but hurt a family member because I answered one of his questions. I did not deserve him talking to me like I was a child. I am a man too and coaches like these think that they are entitled to say whatever they like and not bear the consequences. In my thinking if you are able to ask a question, you are responsible enough to shut up while it is answered. In my pregame meeting I said, "What you see on TV does not apply on this court." This is a freshman basketball game, not varsity, not NCAA and definitely not an NBA game. I think many of the coaches are not seeing what you seem to understand when you were coaching. Coaches are getting out of hand and it is not on the lap of the officials.

Peace

PS2Man Thu Dec 30, 2004 05:38pm

Jeff,

I agree with you. Still that does not absolve coaches from acting like an *** themselves. If you do want a sarcastic response, stop being a smart *** in the way you talk to officials.

Jeremy Hohn Thu Dec 30, 2004 08:15pm

This weekend I told a coach that if he disagreed with what was called on the floor, that our crews' "complaint department" was closed for the holidays and we would get back to him on the 3rd......




We didn't have a single problem from a previously very volitaile coach in a big 5A tournament earlier this week.....



SMEngmann Fri Dec 31, 2004 05:31am

Coaches are smart people and they will take it as far as we are willing to let them. It is no coincidence that at the higher levels of play, where the officials are more experienced at dealing with coaches, that there are fewer problems. We as officials must have the courage to enforce the rules and T coaches when warranted, especially at the lower levels where the problem is at its worst. Despite all the communication in the world, if a coach says or does something that earns a T, he should get it. Allowing personal comments, in my book, is way over the line.

Rich Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:35am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:

Originally posted by jeffpea
PS2Man - As a Communications major in college, I know that the message that is received can be different from what the sender intended. Furthermore, discussion boards like this are not the best way to communciate ideas or thoughts for the same reason.

Now that I have been on both sides of the issue at hand (coach and official), I hated it when officials would take the "don't talk to me becasue I am always right and I know it all"-approach and I certainly don't like it when coaches complain about every call and do it for the benefit of the crowd.

The best way to avoid these situations is to communicate with each other, albeit within reason.

The Cliff-notes version of my advice: Linsten better. Every comment doesn't need a response; smart-aleck retorts don't work; and simply ignoring the problem doesn't provide a resolution. Use the following progression: "I hear you, coach"; "I'll watch for it, coach"; "that's it - I've heard enough, coach"; then "whack" - T.

Part of the problem with this entire discussion is the fact it is too general. I agree that officials should not be a smart-aleck when responding. But I have had coaches go ballistic and you say nothing at all. Larry Brown got upset and the official did not say anything to him. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. We are accused of taking sides when there are not logical reasons to be seen that way.

I T'd up a freshman coach the other day and he claims that was the fastest I he was ever T'd up. I did not make any comments back to him. I answered many of his questions when I had a change. I had his assistant screaming at me as if I really need to explain anything to an assistant. He came to me at halftime after he was T'd up and insisted on talking to me directly. I told him, "This is not the time. I will talk to you later." All that did was make him raise his voice and do more to try to show me up. I think I showed a great deal of restraint and professionalism and not getting upset. The funny thing is that I was being observed by the assignor of this league and the assignor asked me about the situation. This person is a D1 official and knows a lot more than I do about officiating and someone I respect very much. He told me to bring the coaches together and ask this coach "what he wanted to talk about." He also went on to say, "you need to tell him that we cannot talk on my time without the other coach being present." Amazingly when I did this the coach did not comment the rest of the game. He went back to coaching and behaved like a human being should dealing with kids. You would have thought that I did nothing but hurt a family member because I answered one of his questions. I did not deserve him talking to me like I was a child. I am a man too and coaches like these think that they are entitled to say whatever they like and not bear the consequences. In my thinking if you are able to ask a question, you are responsible enough to shut up while it is answered. In my pregame meeting I said, "What you see on TV does not apply on this court." This is a freshman basketball game, not varsity, not NCAA and definitely not an NBA game. I think many of the coaches are not seeing what you seem to understand when you were coaching. Coaches are getting out of hand and it is not on the lap of the officials.

Peace

Many of the coaches know exactly what they are doing. A few weeks ago a JV assistant berated the 2 officials on the floor while my V partner and I watched from the stands. There were at least three or four times I thought the assistant deserved to get whacked. Probably more since he was an assistant, no the head coach, but I'm talking about whackable offenses even if he WAS the head coach.

When I saw him on the bench for the V game, I thought "here it comes."

He didn't say a single word the entire game.

The blame for this falls back on the officials. They NEVER took care of the problem during the game. On top of that, the coaches were standing the whole game -- while I'm usually not overly concerned with the coaching box, in subvarsity in WI they DON'T GET ONE AT ALL. The one comment I made to the JV officials was, "Looks like that coach needs some velcro on his a$$."

I had to clarify my comment, of course, then heard that they really didn't care what the coaches did. Of course, 90% of the JV officials around here have no desire to be varsity officials -- they come for the early game and the paycheck and go home.

--Rich

JRutledge Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:06pm

Rich,

I agree that the officials need to take action. But when they take action they officials get blamed for doing something wrong by the coaches. Even this jerk coach I worked with the other day tried to threaten to report me because he could not understand why I T'd him up. Now I am a veteran, I not only know the process of how you report an official, but I know how they anyone is going to react to him reporting me. I not explaining something to his liking is not a good reason. A younger official is not going to be as aware of that. A younger official might actually think that he or she is in some kind of trouble or something might really arise as a result. Not only that, if he reported me to the assignor, he was there and saw his behavior all by himself. I agree that officials need to take more actions, but coaches and schools do not take enough personal responsibility for their actions. They think because they do not curse they are OK. But they feel they can raise their voice, call you everything close to a name, but when we T your sorry behind up we were taking their actions personally. I even threw out a kid yesterday for kicking another player after a dead ball and the coach tried to make it about me and not the kid. There is this growing culture of blaming others for your own actions. I am just wondering when these coaches get stuck (or their kids) they are not going to go into these speeches about "This was the first time...." or "That kid would never do that." Why can't these guys just accept the punishment and move on?

Peace

RecRefNC Fri Dec 31, 2004 08:29pm

Have heard several good ideas on this (see also the Batman/Robin thread)-one phrase that I learned this year from a partner that helped me with preventative officiating was "Coach, you're coming up to a fork in the road. Your decision will have a big impact on my decision. Now let's play ball."

Coach returned to coaching, we continued the game, all went well.

Will this work all the time and will I use it as a first response? No. However, I do have it in my small encycopedia of strategies.

C


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1