9th grade boys game. Assistant coach for the visiting team has been riding my partner and me all game. By the 4th quarter, his team is losing by 20, but he just keeps riding. One of his players goes up for a layup, maybe got fouled, but my partner (who was the lead--2 man game) passed on it. As we transition the other way (I am now going from Trail to Lead, not-table side), the assistant stands up and starts yelling at my partner again. My partner was already by the bench and couldn't see him standing, I came across the court and pinned him. He knew it was coming and actually didn't say a word.

Now comes the fun part. After the home team shot the free throws and inbounded, they held the ball for about 30-45 seconds before shooting, missing the shot. Visiting team's kid comes down w/ the rebound and is immediately trapped by 3 players. Instead of calling timeout, the genius decides to elbow one of the defenders in the face (not very hard or violently, I may add, just trying to clear space). Seeing how I had just T-boned the coach and the game was out of hand score wise, I called the ordinary player control. Genius however, then decides to chest bump the kid that he just elbowed, knocking him back about 4 feet (T #1) and then took the ball and slammed it off the floor (T #2, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year). Can anyone beat 3 T's in 45 seconds?

You let the Assistant coach talk to you and ride you like that for 4 quarters before you acknowledged him???? you should never take nothing from an assistant coach!!!

Let's forget the record for a minute...
 

#1 - Why are you taking grief from an asst. coach? The first time he says something, if you're nice, you may warn the head coach about him. But the second time, WHACK! :confused:

#2 - Why stick him now? If you've taken his crap for the first 3 quarters and done nothing to stop him, you have no business sticking him in the 4th.

#3 - What has the T on the coach and the score got to do with deciding what to call on the "genuis?"

Here's some advice you can take or leave:

Do not let a head coach ride you for an entire game. Talk to him about it in the first couple of minutes, calm him down. No warnings after that.

Do not let an assistant coach even consider for a second that he can ride you at all. Period. The first time he opens his yap either T him up or tell *the head coach* he has to keep his bench in control.

As far as what to call on the player who elbowed, the elbow was nothing horrible, and regardless of the score was a player control. As far as the coach, looking back I probably should have pinned him earlier, but once he stood up off the bench, whether I took his crap all game or not, he's automatically getting one.

That's not what you wrote.

Quote:

As far as the coach, looking back I probably should have pinned him earlier, but once he stood up off the bench, whether I took his crap all game or not, he's automatically getting one.

You missed the point. :(

Not that I was trying for the record, but I had a Ted Valentine moment of my own 2 years ago - gave a substitute three technical fouls with no time run off the clock.

to the Head Coach: "Sir, you need to have your Bus Driver sit down and be quiet".

The ASSistant Coach is the Bench Coach and that is it as far as his privileges go. The Head Coach is allow to inquire about a call but never allowed to rag. Again to the Head Coach: "do we understand each other?"

Who Want's This Record???
 

TMP44....

Bragging about the number of "T"s you give out doesn't enhance your game management skills. To ask the rest of us if we can match it....well, not sure this is a record I choose to break!

Peace

wl

Todd, you issued a player control foul for excessive use of elbows? Isn't this a violation, or if you deed malicious--an ejection?

By the way, this board can be brutal when you stick your neck out. Constructive advice presented in a pleasant manner is often absent.

Re: Who Want's This Record???
 

Geez, give him a break. He wasn't bragging about it, he was just posting. It sounds as if he tried to avoid T's all game.

The worst thing I saw in this thread was someone referring to the assistant coach as the bus driver. Officials should remain professional at all times and that most certainly is not a professional comment.

Z

I guess that I'd better say this gently so that I don't hurt anybody's feelings.

Scyguy, you can't call an elbowing violation if the elbow physically contacts an opponent. The rules don't support that action. It's only a violation if there is <b>no</b> contact made with the elbow. If a call is made for contact during a live ball with the elbow, then it has to be a personal foul of some type. In this case, depending on the calling official's judgement as to the severity of the act, the choices available are player control foul, intentional personal foul or flagrant personal foul.

Pleasant enough? :D

I worked a game a few years ago where my partner tossed both head coaches and one of the trainers all at the same time.

About 30 seconds later, I teed up both assistants.

I have this game marked down as the mostest funnest game ever.

I think the chest bump would qualify for an ejection. It sounds like it was violent enough by the fact that the kid was pushed backward several feet.

Didn't Don Nelson get tossed 93 seconds into an NBA game a couple of weeks ago? Man, wonder what he said?

I have issued 3 T's in with only a second or two running off the clock (BTW, where was my partner in all this?) 8th grade girls rec league. A1 doesn't like the fact that B1 is trying to tie her up, looks back and WHAM...elbow to the face (T1, flagrant...see ya).

Report it to the table and turn to Coach A;

Me - "Number 10 is disqualified for the flagrant T."
Coach - "You mean your tossing her for that?"
Me - "Yes"
Coach - "I only have 5 players tonight."
Me - "Sorry coach, me hands are tied. Now you have 4."

Coach goes absolutely nuts...yelling, stomping his feet (T2). Coach wants to know why I called a Tech on him. I try to calm him down...thinking my partner will make an appearance any minute (fat chance). I let him vent a minute because it seems like he is calming down and really did not want run him. He starts ramping up again so I say "Coach, calm down and don't force me to call the second tech." He looks at me for a couple of seconds and starts again (T3...good-bye coach).

He pulled the rest of his team of the floor and they went home.

Hope that never happens again.

If he pulled his team off the floor for other than safety reasons, he is in big trouble with the state association and hopefully with his A.D.

I wasn't bragging...
 

I wasn't bragging at all about the three techs, but since we have unusual situation forums on here all the time, I'd thought that I would give my two cents. Sorry to all those that I offended.

Secondly, where I am, it is the attitude of many senior officials in the area to get in and out without incident if possible of a below JV level game only because with the way the schedules are set up for those grade levels, you very well may have the same team and therefore coach two or three times in a season at different venues.

Agreed, I believe that any contact that would result in my calling a dead ball foul is going to result in an ejection. I don't care how light it is, have fun watching the rest of the game from the bench.

If the coach has been out of hand all game deal with it early. It's like calling 3 in the key in the last minute of the game. You haven't done anything about it for the first 31 minutes, why start now??

The assistant coach shouldn't be communicating with the officials at all. When this started you should've talked to the head coach. If the assistant persisted, whack him.

Oh yeah, one other thing, just because you'll see the coach more than once in a year doesn't mean you take their crap. There's this one pair of coaches, the assistant and the head. They always ride the officials. I got on them early, whacked both at least once. I must've done at least 30 of their games in the past 4 years, and now their perfectly behaved.

[Edited by ref18 on Dec 16th, 2004 at 07:29 PM]

Yup, But looking back I'm not proud of it. :(

tmp44:

Yes, I can. Three technical fouls all on the same play, but I am not going to go into that here because just about everybody on this Board has heard my hackneyed war stories, but I digress.

And the only reason I am not giving you grief about how you handled the assistant coach is because you have been taken to task enough by others on this board, plus as a native of Youngstown, Ohio, I have empathy for a Western PA official. And after Youngstown State Univ. and The Ohio State Univ., the Pitt Panthers our younger son's favorite football team, and he has lived in Toledo, Ohio, all of his life.

MTD, Sr.

thanks JR, now that wasn't too painful was it? I should of looked back at the original post. I thought it was excessive elbows, not contact.

These boards, whether it is baseball or basketball, are constantly filled with "road rage" comments. I often wonder what the motivation is behind this form of communication.

However, when the smoke clears, this forum is of major benefit to those of us needing answers about rule interpretation. We just have to soothe our "thin skin" and realize that the benefits outweigh the demeaning nature of some of the posters.

Sigh. Try to be nice and somebody tells me that I've been demeaning people. Nope, scyguy, I've been telling you what I think. Giving you my opinion or take on a rule. Whether you happen to like it or not. What you do with my opinion or take is completely up to you. May I suggest that you just ignore me in the future, so that maybe your feelings won't get hurt- because if I don't agree with you or I think that you are wrong, I'm gonna tell you so.

How do you deal with coaches and players that aren't "nice" to you, anyway?

Lah me!

You gotta admit - whether you agree with MTD's call on it or not, it's one helluva play!

JR, you make my point. It is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It is a matter of common decency. A person can make his point in many ways. But on a forum of officials which share a common goal, I don't see any reason why we cannot be pleasant. Are we not in the same boat? Do you leave your partner hanging on the court whether you like or dislike him? Agree or disagree with him?

I am a school teacher and have been for 16 years. I deal with 11-14 year old kids. Do I know more than them? Sure, but when they ask a question I deal with them in a respectful manner. How difficult is that???

How about I apologize then and send you the roof of my house and my first-born male child? Would that be acceptable to your bruised pyche?

PS-if the answer is "yes", please enclose a mailing address.

sure JR, have a pleasant holiday. You know what type of person you are and I would imagine that is a kind and considerate person.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Quote:

[i] And the only reason I am not giving you grief about how you handled the assistant coach is because you have been taken to task enough by others on this board, plus as a native of Youngstown, Ohio, I have empathy for a Western PA official. And after Youngstown State Univ. and The Ohio State Univ., the Pitt Panthers our younger son's favorite football team, and he has lived in Toledo, Ohio, all of his life. MTD, Sr.

Ever heard of Farrell, Pa. Mr. D? I grew up a Y-Town fan. Went there as a walk on for football, '84. Go Pens!

My Dad is one of those Western Pa Officials you speak of, 27 years. Great Basketball Country!

That is true.

Have a pleasant holiday.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by thumpferee

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Quote: [i] And the only reason I am not giving you grief about how you handled the assistant coach is because you have been taken to task enough by others on this board, plus as a native of Youngstown, Ohio, I have empathy for a Western PA official. And after Youngstown State Univ. and The Ohio State Univ., the Pitt Panthers our younger son's favorite football team, and he has lived in Toledo, Ohio, all of his life. MTD, Sr. Ever heard of Farrell, Pa. Mr. D? I grew up a Y-Town fan. Went there as a walk on for football, '84. Go Pens! My Dad is one of those Western Pa Officials you speak of, 27 years. Great Basketball Country!

Yes, I know of Farrell, PA, very well, I played basketball and golf for Liberty H.S. in the late 60's. Also heard a few, ;-), things about a basketball coach at Farrell H.S. by the name of Eddie McClasky (I can't remember if I have spelled the name correctly). I am still a member of the Trumbull Co. Bkb. Off. Assn. in Warren, Ohio. I graduated from with my degree in civil engineering from YSU.

MTD, Sr.

Change can be good!
 

Ever notice that change can be a good thing.

Sometimes those who could better themselves by changing
have to be told in a not so quite nice way.

I like it when people improve.

BTW I might have the T record.
UC San Diego versus Menlo College (men's D3)about 15 years ago.
A fight broke out with the visiting team's bench clearing
and the issuance of 13 Ts against Menlo (2 against UCSD).
The USCD shooter (Rob Rittgers) canned 26 freethrows without the clock moving.
He broke about a dozen NCAA records including some previously held by Pete Maravich.
They changed the fight/leaving bench rule the next year.
Very interesting situation with having to ask the coach to go to locker room. PS We finished the game without any more problems.
Anyone who can top this has been through the wringer.