WE had this question at our meeting tonight.

Coach doesn't like a call. Turns and addresses the fans loudly, "Hey, is there a referee in the house?" What do you do?

Most of us said T or toss. Interpreter said, ignore.

I'd be interested in any opinions any of my learned colleagues on this board would care to express.

WHACK!

Hmmmm...interesting. Just a thought - if a player "self-promoting" to the fans is worthy of T, why not a coach trying to incite a crowd reaction. If the big guy says ignore it I guess I can go along with that, but the length of the coach's leash just got very very short in my book, & I would probably enforce bench decorum & coach's behavior to the letter of the rule.

It must have been an interesting discussion, sorry I missed it - had a JV girls game at Century tonight.

Depends
 

I think it would depend on the relationship that I have with the coach. That might determine if I thought he was trying to show me up or just have fun etc.,

Either way, he's going to have a short leash the rest of the night.

Thanks
David

It wasn't much of a discussion at all. Question was asked, we responded and then "we got tode..." but not by Howard. This was the rules person, whose name I"ll withhold for the moment. I"ll be interested to hear what Camron has to say. Or Smitty.

It seems cut and dry to me.

The comment was disrespectful, it was toward the crowd with the intent to incite, and it is an improper use of the coach's box.

Was there any reasoning behind the ignore suggestion?

"Don't throw gas on a fire." I don't agree, with that analysis. Seems to me it's the coach that's throwing gas on the fire! No one argued though, because it was right at the end of the meeting, and we all wanted to leave. I might e-mail him, though. It puzzles me that anyone would think this was ignorable.

I love it when coaches ask to get a T, it makes it simple.

WHACK!!! Unsportsmanlike conduct, standing you up. No more box tonight coach...have a seat.

Just out of curiousity, what's the interpreter's history and experience? HS only? College too?

Z

T with a smile.

T without a smile.

"T" with or without a smile.

Whack! That is me putting water on the fire.

Whack! That is me blowing up the building so there is no more fire.

I'd only smile so he'd know how much I enjoyed whacking him. :)

Instead of gas on the fire, I'd call it water on the fire. Whack him and sit him down for the rest of the night. The only reason to possibly let this go is if it was at the very end of the game. Tuesday night I had a coach that was begging for a T in a game he was losing by 20 with less than a minute left. I just walked away and complained about him to the other officials in the locker room. Then the AD presented me with a sportsmanship form so the coach will end up getting some feedback in the long run I hope.

Re: Depends
 

I think that's a pretty good mindset. However, I personally can't imagine a scenario in a varsity game where the coach and I have such a good relationship that this comment would be seen as good-natured fun.

He's probably wearing a seat-belt after that.

Chuckle chuckle
 

"Coach, I think they are all working tonight - so you're stuck with me.

T-bone.

However, we're working our way toward one less coach in the house."
:D

Well, maybe the first two.

Hmmmm, how about this? I'm really stepping out into the dark side on this :D

If you whack the coach right then, you appear to be a reactionary jerk. He has the fans ear at that moment and if you whack him, it will appear that the coach is right.

But if you wait for the next opportunity, then push his buttons until he does something that appears to everybody to be deserving of a T, then reward him, you've just done what everybody expected. He won't have the fans on his side then.

If you subscribe to the pay side, check out Peter Osborne's series on Creative Ejections. :)

I agree with the first part (not saying I wouldn't T him, but the appearance is right), but couldn't go along with the second part (although I'd be quick to T him for anything he said on his own voilition).

Every Tee on the Coach that I have given has been earned. Tee him he certainly earned it. Even if I didn't ejected him I would be emailing the AD the next day.

For the sake of this discussion I am going to assume that this incident took place during a H.S. game.

This is an immediate direct technical foul charged to the Head Coach for unsportsmanlike conduct. In the NFHS Rules Book read R4-S19-A13, R10-S4-A1e, and R10-S4-A1f (especially this last rules reference), and if my memory serves me correct in past years the NFHS Simplified & Illustrated Rules Book had an illustration showing a Head Coach ranting to the fans about the officiating as an example of unsportsmanlike conduct, but there is no illustration in this year's book.

I don't see how an official could be considered "a reactionary jerk" as one posted said. This is conduct that has to be dealt with the first time it happens, because if it isn't then the next time it could even be worse.

So as we say in the Mafia: WHACK HIM!!

MTD, Sr.

I thought about your sitch you described in you meeting and wasn't totally sure how I would react.
So, I decided to get a few responses from some big dogs that I have worked with in the past.
My old NCAA assignor, said to light them up with a T.
Federation guys all agreed, whack 'em.

Only one person didn't say to do it immediately and he qualified it with a question of just how demonstrative was it?

In the end, all agreed that this was unsportsmanlike and a gross unsportsmanlike in fed ball.

Interesting, never had it happen other than some youth ball games years ago but an interesting situation..

I always like to say that I don't "give" technicals, I assess them when they are earned. Just my personal philosophy on usportsmanlike conduct.

Oh come on. The ref makes a call that goes against the home team. The fans don't like it 'cause they're biased and you're penalizing their team. The coach doesn't like it, so he starts playing to the crowd and criticizing the ref for a call many of the fans don't like and probably think he got wrong. Even if they're undecided, the coaches gives validation that the call was wrong. And it wasn't like he cursed or threw a chair onto the floor. So if you whack him, the crowd is going to think that you're over-reacting. In short, you're a "reactionary jerk," at least in their eyes.

Of course I never said whether you should or shouldn't care about what the crowd thinks. But life is always easier when everybody can see the coach earn the T :)

If I hear it and see it, I will T that coach - I just usually am not paying that much attention to the coaches... although, Juulie, the attitude of the "clinician" would explain some things to me. I have had two games with Oregon schools coming across the river, and have had to T the OR coaches in both games...one was jumping around yelling about 10 feet on the floor, and the other said "We didn't travel up here to get homered by you three clowns"...in both cases, they had complete looks of shock when I hit them with the T, and the one who made the comment even asked me "Are you really going to T me for THAT?" When I said yeahsureyoubetcha, his comment was "You guys are way more sensitive than the Portland refs"...so hearing this would explain all that - you refs over there just put up with way too much!

You said it yourself, who cares what the fans think, and for that matter who cares what the coach thinks of your call. Read NFHS R10-S4-A1f and you will see that what the coach is doing is exactly what that rule states. If you are concerned about what the fans think, then maybe you need to refocus your officiating mindset.

MTD, Sr.

BITS, are you serious with this statement? You are suggesting that an official should "bait" a coach, this is unconscionable!

It would be bad enough to even consider such a thing let alone promote or attempt to apply it....shame on you.

Robmoz:

You picked up on something that I should have. Your comments are dead on.

MTD, Sr.

If one of our officials ever tried BIT's advice, he possibly could be an ex-official very quickly. That is completely unprofessional conduct. It also goes completely against what we are supposed to stand for- fairness.

Btw, I'm not surprised at the source though. Peter Osborne is a troll. He writes mainly to stir up crap, nothing else. You won't catch him actually trying to teach anything useful. You would be very wise if you didn't try to adapt <b>anything</b> that he espouses to our sport. Having him as a writer on the paid side of this site says very little for that particular part of this site too imo. He's a poor representative for any officiating group.

I'd only smile so he'd know how much I enjoyed whacking him.
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OverAndBack.....Thats more info than I needed to know :) Lets try to keep this a clean site.

I agree baiting is not good. Not good at all.

However, it is possible to put one in your pocket if the game sitch isn't right for a T.

Not that *I* would ever put one in my pocket...well, almost never...sometimes...but I do like to take into account where we are in the game before T'ing folks up.

Having said that, I probably have a T for this coach...or maybe baggage for the next time I see him. Not that *I* would ever dream of putting one in my pocket...

Coach asks "Is there a official in the house?" I would reply "yes coach right here, bam gets a "T" right now no questions asked. "oh and by the way coach you get to sit the rest of the night enjoy."

Certainly sounds like taunting the crowd to me. T-bam, Whack, T-bone, Tweet or which ever! But only one! :D

Best. Response. Yet.

Not giving him a T at that time is giving him more rope so he will soon hang himself. Unless it is near the end of the game, it appears as if he will repeat his unsportsmanlike behavior shortly. The leash has become a choke chain. I think the showing up of the official may be a key here. If the gym was quiet when he said it and everyone heard it, then the immediate T is more likely. If he said it and you and a few front-row fans heard it, then I might wait for the next unsportsmanlike behavior.

When it happens, a smile is always optional.

I'd just hope he shut up so I didn't have to give him the second one. I HATE paperwork!

You interpreter needs to give his/her head a shake.

Okay, hey you in the back, QUIET!! Listen up here! I e-mailed our interpreter and here's the response he sent me. Gotta admit, I'm relieved. He apparently had referred to it in a humorous way, but where I was sitting, in a school cafeteria, with a very fractious PA system, we didn't hear the nuanced sarcasm very well, and so we thought he seriously meant to ignore it. (I may also admit if pressed, that I wasn't paying real close attention to all the details.) So everyone agrees: IT's a T, if not immediately, then very shortly.

Juulie,
I must apologize. The situation to which you are referring was a feeble attempt at a little humor. As you know, unless a coach's antics are so outlandish or disrespectable, it is usually very hard to "T" a coach for a single isolated incident. But, it certainly could and does happen. This situation that I referred to actually happened to me many years ago. I had worked for the coach several times prior and we always had a very good relationship. He was a lot like me in that we both had a good sense of humor. He complemented me when he thought I made a good call but also mentioned when he was a little unsure of my judgment but always in a light hearted and positive manner. The game was easy and without controversy. We had a few quick light hearted dialogues during the course of the game. I can't remember if he was ahead or behind in score when I made my blocking call. I do remember that as I was reporting the foul to the bench he made his remark to the crowd. I was caught off guard and momentarily didn't know what to do until I heard the roar of sincere laughter and applause I took for appreciation from the spectators. I looked at the coach, smiled and he gave me a great big grin. I shook my head and headed to the other end of the court. It was one my fonder memories of bb officiating.