Pre-game dunking by the V team during JV warmups

[ChuckElias]

You can't penalize a team for the actions of a person who is not on that team, except in very specific situations. (And even then, we're told only to penalize when absolutely necessary). In this situation, the kid who dunks isn't on the team. That makes him a follower of the team, nothing more. Would you T a kid in street-clothes who came on the court and dunked? No, you'd tell him to get off the court. Same here. No penalty. Get him off the court.

[tjones1]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
You can't penalize a team for the actions of a person who is not on that team, except in very specific situations. (And even then, we're told only to penalize when absolutely necessary). In this situation, the kid who dunks isn't on the team. That makes him a follower of the team, nothing more. Would you T a kid in street-clothes who came on the court and dunked? No, you'd tell him to get off the court. Same here. No penalty. Get him off the court.

Chuck,

I would agree. But whenever he dunks the ball and you go to report the T and he's not in the book because he doesn't play, then you've got a heck of a problem. BTW: This didn't happen to me. I was watching a V warm up on one end the their JV on the other and thought "what if". Oh yeah, Chuck have you started using pipe bits instead of wrapping your whistle??

T Jones

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by tjones1
I would agree. But whenever he dunks the ball and you go to report the T and he's not in the book because he doesn't play, then you've got a heck of a problem.

I guess I just don't see the problem, Tanner. Somebody at the table is going to know that the kid is on the varsity, not JV. So you're going to know right away that the T isn't applicable. So you say, "He's not on the team? Ok, thanks. HEY! Get off the court!"

Oh yeah, Chuck have you started using pipe bits instead of wrapping your whistle??

Nope, I like the tape, and it's part of my pre-game ritual now. Just one more of those things that puts me in a basketball frame of mind.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
In the case being discussed, the officials' educated assumption should be that all players in uniform are part of the team which is going to play in that game. Why? Because they have no reason not to assume otherwise.


Sure, I'd assume that too. But when new information presents itself and I find that the kid is not on the team, I don't give a T and I just get him to leave the floor. Simple as that with no lasting controversy or abusing my referee powers. I just can't imagine a situation where I give a "T" to someone who isn't a player.

Z

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by zebraman
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
In the case being discussed, the officials' educated assumption should be that all players in uniform are part of the team which is going to play in that game. Why? Because they have no reason not to assume otherwise.


Sure, I'd assume that too. But when new information presents itself and I find that the kid is not on the team, I don't give a T and I just get him to leave the floor. Simple as that with no lasting controversy or abusing my referee powers. I just can't imagine a situation where I give a "T" to someone who isn't a player.

Hmmmmmm. Do you use the rules? Or do you use an "assumption"?

Tough choice!

[rotationslim]

Sometimes it is better to be "smart" than "right".

Show some skill and artistry, and deal with the situation without putting a "T" on the JV team. Be a leader and teacher on the court, not the cop in "Les Miserable"

IMHO you should be looking for reasons NOT to interject yourself into the game, not ways to show off your ultimate power and authority.

[tomegun]

I agree, there are many ways to get out of this situation without a T and nobody will make a big fuss. I think I would either know they aren't on the JV team because they didn't come out for warm-ups with the JV team or tell them to shoot at their own end if I came out after they did at which point they would tell me they aren't on the JV team. Either way, you can let them shoot and say something to him when he dunks or tell them to get off of the court until their warm-ups before their game.

[ChrisSportsFan]

usually varsity players want to make sure people don't confuse them with a JV player, so the only reason for him to be out there is to "show off". i think i'd just let him know his time is in an hour and a half and since i'm on that game to, i'll be watching. don't get mad about it, say it with a smile and he should go peacefully. maybe bring it up with the coach because next time, the refs might not handle it like we did today.

[DJ]

Sounds to me like this is an administrative problem so if you want to get involved fine but you could go to the administrator on duty and have him address this issue. It certainly has no penalty associated with it. No sense looking for trouble because it is going to find you anyway!! You are an official not a policeman.

[tjones1]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Nope, I like the tape, and it's part of my pre-game ritual now. Just one more of those things that puts me in a basketball frame of mind.

What kind (of tape) do you use?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by tjones1
What kind (of tape) do you use?

Black tape that you'd put on the blade of a hockey stick.

[tjones1]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Black tape that you'd put on the blade of a hockey stick.

So if I sent you a pipe bit to try by snail mail, would you try it?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by tjones1
So if I sent you a pipe bit to try by snail mail, would you try it?

If you went to the trouble of sending it, I would probably try it to be polite; but it would have to be a significant improvement to get me to quit using the tape.

Maybe I could put the tape over the pipe bit. . .