I think I goofed

[lr2242]

Did a sixth-grade girls game today and think I made a mistake. What should I have done?--Tense game--lots of screaming etc. I was across the court from the ball, which was somewhere in a mob of players. Team A had been in possession of the ball and had advanced it to their offensive end. From the corner of my eye I waw coach A signal for timeout. Just as I blew the whistle, player B came out of the tangle of players with the ball and made a layup. My whistle had already blown so I signalled the timeout, waved off the basket by B and announced team B would have possession on the sideline.

My partner came up to point out that we would have to give possession to team A. Since we had granted the timeout, team A 'must' have had possession. I bought his reasoning (which I think I regret) and informed coach B he would not have the ball after all. In retrospect I wish I would have admitted the mistaken timeout and stuck with my initial decision to award team B possession. Any advice appreciated.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by lr2242
Did a sixth-grade girls game today and think I made a mistake. What should I have done?--Tense game--lots of screaming etc. I was across the court from the ball, which was somewhere in a mob of players. Team A had been in possession of the ball and had advanced it to their offensive end. From the corner of my eye I waw coach A signal for timeout. Just as I blew the whistle, player B came out of the tangle of players with the ball and made a layup. My whistle had already blown so I signalled the timeout, waved off the basket by B and announced team B would have possession on the sideline.

My partner came up to point out that we would have to give possession to team A. Since we had granted the timeout, team A 'must' have had possession. I bought his reasoning (which I think I regret) and informed coach B he would not have the ball after all. In retrospect I wish I would have admitted the mistaken timeout and stuck with my initial decision to award team B possession. Any advice appreciated.

This is what is commonly referred to as a "BLARGE".

Let's start here. NF rule 5.8.3 says the timeout begins when the official "Grants a player's/head coaches oral or visual request..." Now the question becomes, does the ball become dead when you recognize the request, or when you blow the whistle? It all depends on what your association has said based on the meaning of the word "grants".

I think it is most common to consider the coach or player has the right to expect a point in time as the stoppage of play point at the time you recognize the request, even if it takes you a moment to blow your whistle and something happens within that moment.

I know I have heard officials in this situation state to the scorer and the benches that "he signaled for it while it was still in player control" or something similar.

In your case, you could either claim that is what happened and give the ball back to A, or claim that you called the timeout improperly when B had control, in which case A still gets the timeout but you would give the ball to B.

Personally, I think the first option is much better. In that case, you really did nothing wrong, while in the second scenerio, you have to admit to a screw-up. Besides, the coach really did request it when he could legally have it.

[co2ice]

Well stated Mark, I can't believe how many times this situation happens. Just as it registers with you a coach wants a timeout someone on the opposing team steals the ball then you blow your whistle. I have found that after a made shot in close game that glancing over to the bench to see if a TO is being requested also cuts down on controversy.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by lr2242
I was across the court from the ball, which was somewhere in a mob of players. Team A had been in possession of the ball and had advanced it to their offensive end.

It's hard from your original post to determine the precise sequence of events as you saw them. However, the things I key on are this mob of players plus the use of the past tense when referring to A's possession. It seems from reading this post that possession of the ball by A already was in doubt when it entered the mob of players, then you blew the whistle. If that is true, the first mistake was granting a TO if you do not know that the team requesting it has possession.

Once you whistled it dead, I would agree that it is probably easier to say that A had possession when you recognized the TO. But if you really made a mistake in recognizing the TO and realize it too late, you should bite the bullet, admit the mistake, and give the ball to B. It isn't going to completely placate B's coach (they lost a basket) and now A is mad as well, but it is the right thing to do.

[DanIvey]

Originally posted by lr2242
Did a sixth-grade girls game today and think I made a mistake. What should I have done?--Tense game--lots of screaming etc. I was across the court from the ball, which was somewhere in a mob of players. Team A had been in possession of the ball and had advanced it to their offensive end. From the corner of my eye I waw coach A signal for timeout. Just as I blew the whistle, player B came out of the tangle of players with the ball and made a layup. My whistle had already blown so I signalled the timeout, waved off the basket by B and announced team B would have possession on the sideline.

My partner came up to point out that we would have to give possession to team A. Since we had granted the timeout, team A 'must' have had possession. I bought his reasoning (which I think I regret) and informed coach B he would not have the ball after all. In retrospect I wish I would have admitted the mistaken timeout and stuck with my initial decision to award team B possession. Any advice appreciated.

Just one question. How did the Team B player "come out of the tangle of players" with the ball on A's "offensive end" and make a layup?

Sounds like you are correct lr2242, that it was a "mistaken timeout". Bite the bullet. Admit your mistake to the coaches...give Team A their "granted" time out and give Team B their ball back.

[Bart Tyson]

This is called OJT. Learn from it. Once you blow the whistle the play is dead,( unless the ball is in flight). So, if a player continues to play and in this case as you described it the player went for a lay up, blow the whistle again and immediately wave off the basket.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by DanIvey
Just one question. How did the Team B player "come out of the tangle of players" with the ball on A's "offensive end" and make a layup?

I was going to ask the same question.

Think about this play. A1 saves the ball and yells, "Timeout! as he's in flight and lands OOB before you grant the request. Are you going to penalize him and give the ball to B because you couldn't blow the whistle before he landed OOB?

I hope not.

And if you ever have any doubt about who has possession, don't grant a TO.

[DanIvey]

Think about this play. A1 saves the ball and yells, "Timeout! as he's in flight and lands OOB before you grant the request. Are you going to penalize him and give the ball to B because you couldn't blow the whistle before he landed OOB?

Good point BktBallRef. I have had at least 2 or 3 of these airborn timeout requests this year. Luckily I have blown the whistle while they are in the air, but would still grant them the timeout if I heard it and didn't blow my whistle before they landed.

Sidenote: Some coaches have asked if a player can still call a timeout while in the air and falling out of bounds. They state that it is now illegal for the Pros to do it. I tell them NFHS still rewards a player for his quick thinking and athletic move.

[Kelvin green]

I guess my question is... why was the ball across the court from you??? If there are a bunch of players around the ball you cant be 47 feet away. You need to get across the floor. I am assuming based on your description of the play that you had primary coverage on the ball. You would then really know if you could have called time out or not. Heck the ball could have been lose for all you know and you made an inadvertent whistle and the ball should have been awarded based on the arrow.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
Heck the ball could have been lose for all you know and you made an inadvertent whistle and the ball should have been awarded based on the arrow.

As Arlo Guthrie once said, "there was a third possibility I hadn't even counted upon" - good point Kelvin.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
This is called OJT. Learn from it. Once you blow the whistle the play is dead,( unless the ball is in flight). So, if a player continues to play and in this case as you described it the player went for a lay up, blow the whistle again and immediately wave off the basket.

What's OJT?

[DanIvey]

OJT is On the Job Training

[Peter Devana]

I agree with Hawk Coach Again!!!