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-   -   Do we have a violation? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/16713-do-we-have-violation.html)

Hoopref Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:32pm

DIII women's game on Sunday. I am trail and this play occurs in front of me...

B1 is guarding A1 as they are moving towards the sideline. B1 taps the ball away from A1 but their movement causes both of them to continue oob. B1 is quicker and gets back onto the playing court and is now the first to touch the ball and starts heading up the court towards her basket. There was a foul against A1. As I go over to table side, A's coach questions why this was not a violation seeing that B1 was out of bounce and was the first to touch. Told him that she did not go oob due to her own volition. He was not happy.

Rule 9.4.1 states...

1. A player who steps out of bounds under his/her own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.

Man in Grey Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:39pm

I'd say good "no call".

Dan_ref Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:43pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Hoopref
DIII women's game on Sunday. I am trail and this play occurs in front of me...

B1 is guarding A1 as they are moving towards the sideline. B1 taps the ball away from A1 but their movement causes both of them to continue oob. B1 is quicker and gets back onto the playing court and is now the first to touch the ball and starts heading up the court towards her basket. There was a foul against A1. As I go over to table side, A's coach questions why this was not a violation seeing that B1 was out of bounce and was the first to touch. Told him that she did not go oob due to her own volition. He was not happy.

Rule 9.4.1 states...

1. A player who steps out of bounds under his/her own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.

Good call.

And I bet this is not the last time we'll hear this from coaches who are paying atention.

thumpferee Wed Dec 01, 2004 01:02pm

As most will say, the best call of the game may be a NO CALL!

I'm curious though, did you really say "volition" in explaining your call to the Coach? And, did he know what that meant?




tomegun Wed Dec 01, 2004 01:07pm

The same thing happened to me already this season. IMO some people really need to look up the definition of volition which is:

The act or an instance of making a conscious choice or decision.
A conscious choice or decision.
The power or faculty of choosing; the will.

Now if this is the meaning of the rule your "no call" was right on the money. If the rule should have been applied in your case and in mine then the word volition needs to be taken out and a different word should be used. .02

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Dec 01, 2004 01:12pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Hoopref
DIII women's game on Sunday. I am trail and this play occurs in front of me...

B1 is guarding A1 as they are moving towards the sideline. B1 taps the ball away from A1 but their movement causes both of them to continue oob. B1 is quicker and gets back onto the playing court and is now the first to touch the ball and starts heading up the court towards her basket. There was a foul against A1. As I go over to table side, A's coach questions why this was not a violation seeing that B1 was out of bounce and was the first to touch. Told him that she did not go oob due to her own volition. He was not happy.

Rule 9.4.1 states...

1. A player who steps out of bounds under his/her own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.


The key to these situations both NFHS and NCAA is this: Did the player deliberately go out-of-bounds to avoid committing an infraction of the rules?

99.999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999% (I think that everybody gets my point) of the time when a player goes out-of-bounds it is bacause his momentum has carried him out-of-bounds. When a player deliberately goes out-of-bounds to avoid committing an infraction, one will know it immediately.

I am not and english major but I think the NCAA could have used a better word than volition.

MTD, Sr.

tomegun Wed Dec 01, 2004 01:20pm

MTD, I agree with you 100%. They should either eliminate the word to read "if a player goes out of bounds and is the first to touch the ball" or specifically state that they mean a player has to go out of bounds on purpose. They should also make a casebook play for this. In most of our meetings the example of someone using a double-screen and going out of bounds then catching to shoot was used. Yeah, yeah, we know that but what about the good defensive play that carries the defender out of bounds momentarily? IMO not the same thing.


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