For the second weekend now, I worked a rec basketball tournament. This one was called the "Thanksgiving Classic," and I sure did put the "T" in Thanksgiving. In the first game of the tournament (I did eight over Saturday and Sunday). I gave out 6 T's. I'm looking for a little feedback over that game.

Situation: 7th grade boys, evenly matched and pretty good basketball game up until this point. My partner kept whistling my lines, which was aggravating, but not a huge deal. Then Coach A, who has been chirping and waving his arms all game, gets a warning from me. A few seconds later I call a foul on his team and he grabs his hat off his hand and throws it to the ground. Technical 1. I take a few steps to go report the foul, and the coach gives me the finger. Technical 2. We continue the game, and about 4 minutes later, player A gets fouled (not that hard, just a bump) on the sidelines by player B. B starts to walk away and A wheels and throws the basketball at the back of his head. Flagrant technical. We finish the first half and partner says to me at halftime "I'm not sure if I would have called those technicals. I've never even called a technical, and I've been refereeing for 14 years." I was a little shocked, to put it mildly.

The second half wasn't much better. A player on A steps out of bounds and I call it. Still a close game. He yells "F*ck you" at me. Technical 4. Then he spits at me (fortunately it wasn't very accurate). Technical 5. A few minutes later, Assistant Coach A (now the head coach) asks for a timeout when they have the ball and I grant it. Then he takes a few steps out on the court, clapping, and says "Good call. That's your best one this half!" Technical 6. A few minutes later, a player from team A gets down on hands and knees and crawls across the lane and barks. I had no idea what he was doing, so I just left that alone. By this point, Team B has pulled in front and they win the game. I didn't have a problem for the rest of day. Then on Sunday, I worked with one of my regular partners, all 3 games were fine. The tournament had teams from 3 different leagues, and officials from all 3, which is why I think my partner for Saturday and I were on such different pages.

Looking back on the fiasco that was the first game Saturday, I'm hoping to learn a little something from it. Would you have given out T's for those? What could I do differently (better) in the future?

As described YES they were all justified, and short of calling the game a travesty there is nothing else you could have done.

I might have told my partner perhaps he needs to re-evaluate his idea of what warrents a T.;)

Those all sound pretty warranted. I'm not sure what led up to all the outlandish behavior.... without being there, not sure if there were things that could have been done to curb the behavior before it got to that point or if these were just out-of-control teams that didn't understand any boundaries. If your partner has been reffing for 14 years and never called a T, that might be part of the problem as he has no clue about establishing any behavior boundaries.

Leave that game behind you and move on.... far, far behind you.

Z

All good Ts, sounded like a rough game but definitely all good Ts. Just curious, had the one player that cussed at you, would you have called it flagarant if he hadn't spit at you?

Gotta agree with BZ & ZM. All the T's were warranted.

Look at the pattern: all the T's were on team A. Obviously the coaches attitude has been passed on to his assistant & players - possibly because he's been getting away with it for a while.

This needs to get passed back to whoever is responsible for the league he coaches in. IMHO he has no business coaching youth sports.

This guy is an idiot. Forget about anything he said to you.

I call this a flagrant T.

I don't even make that call. He is NOT the HEAD coach. He does NOT get promoted when the other moron leaves. He is still just an assistant. He can't use the coaching box, nor may he request a time-out. IMO.

Absolutely, without hesitation or remorse.

If you were the Referee, not the Umpire, you could forfeit the game somewhere around technical number 4, maybe 5.
Otherwise, great job! Glad there are people like you out there officiating.
PS Where do you officiate?

Where were the parents in all of this? If my kid played on that team, i think that would be our last game with that coach. My guess is that wasn't their worst game, and i bet they've gotten away with some of that stuff before. it seems that whenever you have an arguementative coach, it also shows up in his players and fans. I'm not sure that game should have made it to the final buzzer.

At my Thanksgiving Tourney, the Mom that was working the clock warned us that last year, one of their Moms threw her shoe at a ref. After we laughed about it, i told her we'd try and do a better job but that if she throws her shoe, she ain't getting it back.

All the T's were warrented. Throwing the hat seemed kind of harmless, but you had already warned him, and I expect players and coaches to tone down all behavior like that when I give warnings (even if he was just frustrated with his team). The assistant walking out onto the court and clapping, I might not have given that one, but I wasn't in the game situation (after calling the other 5 technicals). Just a matter of opinion. Now if this is a soccer game, he get the yellow guaranteed (if I can give it) for entering the field.

As for some preventative officiating, I would have talked to both coaches and both captains after about the 3rd technical. I would have given everyone, including the other team (who seemed to be behaving) a warning that no more of what was going on would be tolerated.

[Edited by SpeedyGonGoalie on Nov 30th, 2004 at 09:04 AM]

I think I would have waved off the game when rover started barking.

Speedy, just curious why you would apply a different standard of judgement to the coaches action in bball as opposed to soccer. A T seems about equivalent to a yellow card to me.

BITS,
I agree 100% with you on this. I do quite a bit of HS soccer, too. Even got the state final this year.

I have a question. Where was the tournament director. I would blame the tournament director for allowing this to escalate. Sounds to me that you did the best that you could and that your partner was an idiot.

Unreal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All this crap in a 7TH GRADE game. Wow, is sportsmanship going down the tubes this fast.... or it is these younger kids watching too much of the NBA?? :) Nice job, I say mega dittos to everyone else, they deserved all the Ts.

T Jones

As described every one of those Ts were well deserved.
As for you partner, he needs to find a new hobby.
I have always said; "if you don't have the balls to make the call get off the court."
From the sound of it, he needs to get a plumber to check his equipment.

Sorry you had to have a game like that but they do happen.

Sara, hopefully by now any doubt that you may have had about your actions has been completely erased. Your actions were absolutely correct.

Personally, I probably would've called the game a forfeit after the F-U comment, and definitely would've called a forfeit after the spitting.

The f--- you comment was a flagrant technical.

You started off well, BTW. The hat throwing was a big deal. It's grandstanding and gets an immediate T from me, too.

And I would've run the assistant at the point where he came across the floor clapping -- I'm not sure if that's what happened in your game, but it's what I would've done.

I think I would've forfeited this game much earlier than this, but I have very little patience for youth games where players and coaches act like this. I think it's a function of getting older and grumpier.

Your partner is an idiot. But I think you already know that.

--Rich

These were interesting responses. Made me go back to my book.

I think you did a good job.
No wonder your partner wouldn't have called those Ts, he hasn't called a T in 14 years!!

Nevada, if the head coach is thrown out of the game, are you saying you wouldn't let the assistant coach call a timeout? I understand about the assistant not standing up. Can you tell me the rule reference that talks about this (the assistant, who is now the coach, calling the timeout)? If a player got hurt would you let anyone come onto the court?

Oh, yeah. The F bomb would definatley get a high school player a permanent seat on the bench and a college player an early shower.

[Edited by tomegun on Nov 30th, 2004 at 01:15 PM]

I like this too.

Forfeiting a game is much easier when the fans, benches, and table personnel have all seen the actions you described to us.

We wonder why!!
 

Sounds like whoever is in charge of your league needs to go to the person in charge of these "7th grade kids" and tell them that if the conduct of their team does not improve pronto that they will no longer be welcome in this rec league. This is what is wrong with America. We tolerate way too much bad behavior and think that we are doing our kids a favor by doing it. Ah yes, the Pistons and the Pacers at a different level. And we scratch our heads and wonder why!! Good job , you did your part. Now it is up to the league authority to do their part.

Thanks for all the responses. I feel a little bit better about it now.

When I called the T for dropping the f-bomb, I was thinking flagrant, but then he spit at me and it was just a reflex to call another T. At that point, I just went with two technicals.

I asked my partner at a timeout if he thought we should forfeit the game, as he was the referee. He said he thought it was unnecessary, so I just tried to get done with the game.

I submitted a report to the tournament director, and he called me back today. This coach is forbidden from participating in any other area tournaments run this league, or from working in either of the leagues I work in. He also thanked me and said he would double my pay for that game. That's nice of him, but I would have rather just had a good game.

I'm a young ref, and I work a lot of rec basketball, hoping to improve game management and just get more court time. Definitely got some game management practice this weekend.

By the way, the fans were equally obnoxious, but I just ignored them. "He got mugged, call 911! People are doing time for less than that! Call a d*amn travel, you idiot ref!"

No wonder the kids were so bad, when you look at their "adult" examples. I'm just glad the leagues I work in clearly have much better sportsmanship than the league this team was from.

Hang in there! :) Don't let one idiots stupid remarks get you down. Like everyone has said: you did your job --and did it well I might add. The more I think about it, I would of froze just like you did if a <b>7TH GRADER</b> dropped the F-bomb towards me and even further spit on me.

One of the unfortunate aspects of being a young(ish) female ref is the fact that you have to prove yourself over and over again. I find that with some people they use the age and size and gender to speculate how good you are.

I ran into a lot of this when I was doing University Rec Leagues. Be confident, make strong solid calls and it will come together.

Not all games will be like this. Move on and have fun.

Keep on reffin' and have fun out there.

Hahaha! So classic...

This proves once more a quite funny quote from Pierre Marion: "As a group, the spectators present three characteristics: ignorance of the rules, emotionally involved in a team and a traditional antipathy towards officials. Knowing these facts can help you understand why you must forget about the fans, except if they interrupt the match or unable you from doing your duty".

Hehe! Free translation from French... I hope there aren't too many mistakes! :D

Sara,
Congrtulations for surviving a disaster. Do you read Referee magazine? This month's issue points out that the worst sportsmanship in sports is in the rec level and professional. You would probably agree with that now. I've seen it in basketball and soccer.
Also, at the risk of sounding sexist and I don't mean to be, I've worked with women partners and have found that male coaches will often say things to them during a game that they wouldn't dare say to me or another man. The F U quote for her came at an 8th grade girl's Catholic Jr. High district champioship. He also bumped her when he was saying it. She's 5'3 - 120. I'm 6'1 - 215. He'd have never done that to a male referee. We made sure he was written up for the incident. Don't take that off of any coach, especially some rec league coach who has reached the zenith of his illustrious coaching career!

Sara, Refnrev is right and so's Christina (cingram). Women do have to prove themselves over and over and over again, even with women coaches sometimes. But keep remembering that old saying that our mothers had hanging on their refrigerators, and later in their cubicles, and now it's framed and hanging in the corner offices. "Unfortunately, women have to be twice as good as men to get the same rewards. Fortunately, this isn't difficult."