John Harris's column in The (Toledo) Blade regarding officials in Pacers-Piston game.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The following column appeared in the Tuesday, November 23, 2004, edition of The Blade:

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs...0390/-1/SPORTS

[IowaMike]

I'm not sure what video of the game this guy has watched but I think he is off base. I saw Tommy Nunez step in pretty quickly in an attempt to get Artest away from Wallace. It was Wallace who kept coming and continued to escalate the situation on the court. I also felt that although the foul by Artest was a hard one, it was not worthy of ejection. I've seen plenty of fouls harder than that one in the NBA where the player was not ejected. Once a general riot ensued, what the heck are three officials going to be able to do about it? Go into the stands themselves? There is a lot of blame to go around here. I didn't see the whole game so I don't know how the officials handled things up to that point, but once everything hit the fan I'm not sure what else they could have done. Once Wallace came back at Artest I don't think they had the chance to eject anyone, it was already turning into chaos. Harris needs to remember that it is the players and fans who did the fighting and they are the ones to blame.

[Wearin' Stripes]

One more bone of support for the officials. One, I'm not sure who, dove after Artest in an attempt to restrain him on the initial charge into the stands.

Let me take a wild guess here, but is this John Harris a Pistons fan. I agree with everything you guys have said and from watching the videos I came to 3 conclusions.

1) The foul may have been a little hard, but nothing flagrant. Wallace just lost his cool.

2) Which ever official it was that step in between Wallace and Artest trying to difuse the problem did exactly the right thing. I don't know if I'd have the balls to get in between 2 guys that big that are that upset but he did what he needed to. If it wasn't for the fan throwing the glass at Artest I believe the officials would have diffused the situation and most likely Wallace would have been the only one ejected from the game.

3) One of the officials along with a couple of other people at or around the table did there best to restrain Artest and keep him from going into the stands. But who realistically believes that any referee is going to be able to stop at 6'8 230lb(not sure exactly how big Artest is) man that is very agitated from going anywhere.

I think this reporter is way off base and needs to look at the situation through unbiased glasses and then see what he thinks.

Sorry for the long rant but as much as I hate the NBA and what the officials let the players get away with they are still extremely good officials and seemed to handle the situation as well as can be expected.

[Indy_Ref]

Harris is just another idiot trying to assign unwarranted blame. I, too, am not sure what else the officials could have done. I did not see the game but the Pacers/Pistons rivalry is quite heated.

Admittedly, I would have liked to have seen all 3 officials come in hard once the foul happened. And, I would have liked to have seen all 3 over by the table trying to get between the teams and push them apart. However, I'm sure they valued their lives and didn't want to risk it.

[tomegun]

Indy_Ref, IMO one of the refs must stay back in any fight situation to take note of things going on.

Jerry Blum, while I understand your feelings about the pro game we should understand that the NBA officials are the best officials in the world. They are all on the same page (6 figures and benefits will cause that) and call games with consistency. We might not like how the game is played but we should adopt some of their philosophies. If they changed the way they called the game it wouldn't be pretty. For instance, Shaq would foul out of games and get called for traveling but he would also shoot 40 (maybe not 40 but a ton!) free-throws a game. It should also be noted that someone on this forum pointed out that they don't even have the same rules for such things as traveling as we do in the high school and college game. Another contributing factor is the fact that the American game of basketball is on the decline from a skill perspective. Maybe the US Olympic committee and the NBA should pay for some skill camps at the high school level across the country. If Little Johnny can't execute the pick and roll, shoot an open twenty footer, the pull up jumper, layups on both sides, box out and play good defense but Little Johnny is 6' 9' with a 43" vertical guess what Little Johnny is going to do? Multiply Little Johnny by 10,000, add a full AND1 season and the American "me first" attitude and you come up with a product that we just don't like.

[rotationslim]

I agree that there was nothing the refs could have done.. their job was to seperate the players on the court, but there is not possible way they could keep the offenders on the court if they decided to go into the stands.

However.. I disagree about Artest's foul, I believe he should have been ejected, not for the roughness of the foul, but because the game was out of reach, 15 points, with just a few moments left in game. It was just meant to injure or send a message, not to gain competitive advantage, so I would have voted to toss him.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by rotationslim
However.. I disagree about Artest's foul, I believe he should have been ejected, not for the roughness of the foul, but because the game was out of reach, 15 points, with just a few moments left in game. It was just meant to injure or send a message, not to gain competitive advantage, so I would have voted to toss him.

You cannot eject someone because they make a foul with the game out of reach. If that is the case there would be an ejection every game. I know I would have had an ejection last night. I had a player trying to make a basket and a defender not allowing him to just make a lay-up. The foul was not really hard but obvious. Both players were bench players and did not play much during the game. You cannot just eject someone that is playing the game until the end. We would be here talking about how much these guys make and why they are not playing until the end if Artest or Wallace did anything different than try to make a play. Wallace just overacted.

Peace

Tomegun - I realize that the NBA game has different rules and I realize the refs are calling the game the way they have to because of those rules. I wasn't trying to say that they weren't calling what they were supposed, I happen to agree that they are the best officials but I don't have to like the way the game is played in the NBA.

What did you mean by we should adopt some of their philosophies? If you are talking about making the High school and college games more like the NBA then you are completely wrong. I would really like to know what you meant by that because I don't believe it makes much sense.

As far as the part about the American game I agree that fundamentals should be stressed. Because as was seen in the Olympics Europeans are playing basketball the way it was meant to be played, as a team, and are starting to beat the US pros consitently because of it.

[rotationslim]

"You cannot eject someone because they make a foul with the game out of reach. If that is the case there would be an ejection every game."

That is not what I said, would it not be appropriate to be very quick to eject someone who fouls HARD and needlessly when a game is out of reach, as opposed to someone who fouls just as hard, but during a close, intense battle right up 'till the final buzzer.

Obviously a foul is a foul, and you would call it in both instances, but wouldn't you be more willing to toss a player when the game is out of reach, and the foul is completely useless, and just an expression of frustration?

[Junker]

I caught this incident as it happened (I was flipping channels, I can't stand watching the NBA) and I thought that Wallace had reason to be upset. He still should have let the officials handle it but I thought the foul was borderline flagrant. I make my case with the camera angle from behind that they showed live and then it was the first replay until the highlight shows. It looked to me like Artest went after the ball with one hand and he grabbed Wallace's shoulder with the other and yanked back on it. Seeing how it is the NBA and we had a post a while back that told us that in the NBA you have to think about who is doing the action before you make a call I thought it would have possibly been better to call it flagrant. Did anyone else see it this way or is it just me? I thought the officials did everything they could and more in this situation. The blame needs to be shared by all that were involved.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by rotationslim
That is not what I said, would it not be appropriate to be very quick to eject someone who fouls HARD and needlessly when a game is out of reach, as opposed to someone who fouls just as hard, but during a close, intense battle right up 'till the final buzzer.

I guess this is where judgment comes in and maybe we do not have the same judgment. I did not think the foul was any different than a normal play. I think if Artest was not involved, you would never suggest the type of foul was hard enough to eject someone. Just my take on your post. I could be wrong.

Originally posted by rotationslim
Obviously a foul is a foul, and you would call it in both instances, but wouldn't you be more willing to toss a player when the game is out of reach, and the foul is completely useless, and just an expression of frustration?

No I would not. If the foul warrants and ejection, it would warrant an ejection regardless of what time the game it was at. Ben Wallace was not knocked down or really knocked off balance. He was fouled by Artest that has a right to contest a shot. He was called for the foul and Wallace overacted. The only person I would eject would be Wallace if that happen in my game. Artest did everything to walk away and did not confront Wallace at all. He backed away and then quickly laid down on the scorer's table. I think it would be a stretch to eject someone that in all his body language was doing nothing to be confrontational. Players are still allowed to play the game when the game is out of hand or not in question.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

Who is this bozo? I can't even be bothered to go back to the story to look up his name. Like any other sports writer, he's concerned with two things: filling column inches (to get a check) and getting talked about (to help ensure future checks). He succeeded.

He picked an easy target, spouted a few unqualified opinions to a willing audience and he's got even us talking about it. Let's give this unenlightened oportunistic professional fan-boy the treatment he deserves. Let's remove the link so he stops getting hits on this story. Let's not give him any more air time; He's already had more than he deserves.

[rotationslim]

I may be looking at the foul through the benefit of 20/20 hindsite, knowing what comes next, I think he should have been tossed, however if the game would have just continued, I would feel differently and have considered it just a foul..

another question:
Let's pretend the beatdown never happened, should he have been given a T for laying on the scorers table? His clear intent was to show up the referee--

[ShadowStripes]

This article borders on lunacy. Review the tape 1000 times like the rest of America before you publish this rubbish.