frurstrated already

[Junker]

Hey all, I didn't want to post this because I'm going to be saying some negative things about some partners I've had recently but I'd like your thoughts.
I recently moved and changed assignors. I'm in my 5th year and got my first varsity games last year. I've been to camps the last 2 years, more than one this summer and have heard good things from all my evaluators. I think and have been told that I'm a pretty solid official. Anyway, between the preseason games I've done and the first game of the season, I've had some pretty suspect partners. In all but one of the preseason games (tournaments and leagues) my partners have called my line multiple times. Last night my parnter made about 6 calls in my area of which 2 were right as well as double whistles since I was coming with it also. The worst was a double whistle we had where I was T, he was L. Ball was near side to me and we both come up with a travel at the same time (not that he's watching the ball or anthing). The frustrating part is this is my first time in a lot of these schools and they already know the other officials. I'm sure some will percieve the wrong calls out of my parnter's area as me not doing the job in my area. Any advice on how to handle these situations. Sorry this is so long, but I'm also venting a little. Thanks.

[bgtg19]

I hear, and have shared, your frustration. As difficult as it is, my suggestion is just to keep doing the best job you can. Although at first people may perceive your ability in relationship to your partners, as you stay around the area more they will begin to know *you* as an official.

One other suggestion might be to, as much as you can, cover things like what you describe during pre-games.

With all the positive feedback you are receiving, be confident in your ability as an official, keep working hard, and you will get noticed for the right reasons. My $.02.

[IowaMike]

It's a tough situation to be in, especially if you are working with a veteran official who is perceived by others to be better than you. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and get the game over with, knowing that you have done the best you can. However, I generally don't have a problem telling my partner at halftime that I am fully capable of covering my area and would appreciate it if he would let me do it. Or, you could take the passive aggressive approach and start taking calls that take place five feet away from him in his area.

[Bart Tyson]

Do you have an association? This is a great place to talk about issues. Be patient, as you grow in stature, you will be able to start to turn things around. This may take several years. You will need other officials, that see things the way you do to help. Also, you need to communicate with you supervisor, but not until you gain his respect.

[David B]

Originally posted by Junker
Hey all, I didn't want to post this because I'm going to be saying some negative things about some partners I've had recently but I'd like your thoughts.
I recently moved and changed assignors. I'm in my 5th year and got my first varsity games last year. I've been to camps the last 2 years, more than one this summer and have heard good things from all my evaluators. I think and have been told that I'm a pretty solid official. Anyway, between the preseason games I've done and the first game of the season, I've had some pretty suspect partners. In all but one of the preseason games (tournaments and leagues) my partners have called my line multiple times. Last night my parnter made about 6 calls in my area of which 2 were right as well as double whistles since I was coming with it also. The worst was a double whistle we had where I was T, he was L. Ball was near side to me and we both come up with a travel at the same time (not that he's watching the ball or anthing). The frustrating part is this is my first time in a lot of these schools and they already know the other officials. I'm sure some will percieve the wrong calls out of my parnter's area as me not doing the job in my area. Any advice on how to handle these situations. Sorry this is so long, but I'm also venting a little. Thanks.

Its hard if you are not having group meetings etc., and then you might have a lot of the officals not in attendance.

If I have never worked with a partner though, I make certain that we have a very very thorough pregame.

Talk about court areas, talk about double whistles, encourage them to watch their area etc.,

It might not help an official who doesn't know what you are talking about, but it will probably help solve some of the issues.

If it continues, talk about it at halftime. Bring up a call, "what did you see on that play?" etc.,

Good luck

thanks
David

[Dan_ref]

IMO it could be any of these:

1. You moved to an area with very untrained officials

2. Being the new guy the officials you are working with don't trust you and feel the need to take your calls

3. Being the new guy the officials you are working with think the coaches won't trust you and feel the need to take your calls

4. These guys are knocking off some early season rust.

You can usually get these guys to back off by talking to them about taking your calls early on. If you're the type that enjoys a good confrontation tell them to stay the hell out of your area. If you're the peace keeping type tell them you had it all the way and they called it the wrong way. In any event now that you're getting a taste of what things are like where you are you should emphasise primary areas in your pregame.

BTW, for a seasoned guy to call your line *twice* is insulting, imo - doing it once is bad enough. I wouldn't put up with it very long, I might even be tempted to reverse his call if it was close.

[tharbert]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
BTW, for a seasoned guy to call your line *twice* is insulting, imo - doing it once is bad enough. I wouldn't put up with it very long, I might even be tempted to reverse his call if it was close.

Ouch! Shame on you D_R. By rule, you do not have any authority to "reverse" any call. A short huddle to make sure the covering official saw the entire play may be appropriate but no one can reverse another referee's call.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
2. Being the new guy the officials you are working with don't trust you and feel the need to take your calls

This was my first thought.

4. These guys are knocking off some early season rust.

Possible, but even at my rustiest, I don't blow the wrong sideline.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by tharbert

Ouch! Shame on you D_R. By rule, you do not have any authority to "reverse" any call. A short huddle to make sure the covering official saw the entire play may be appropriate but no one can reverse another referee's call.

But "the covering official" did not make the call, so there's no call to reverse.

My line, my call.

Your line, your call.

[gordon30307]

Last night I had a situation as lead where I am off ball with two post players jockeying for position the defensive player very briefly held the offense player I'm passing on this because the player quickly released ( no advatage IMO)and the ball was nowhere near my area. The offense player now gives the defensive player a little shove (Not violent nothing bad rather "gentle" no one should have seen this except for me) in retaliation I'm passing again except my partner who should be on ball calls a foul. When I had a chance I talked to him about this I agreed that it was a foul but since the play was 10 feet from me on my side of the basket I asked him why he was on ball when he should have been off ball. I explained what happened and why I was passing. He understood and the rest of the game went well.

If this happens again I would ask for example I was on ball and you were on ball who should been watching the off ball action? I'm kind of new and if I was wrong help me out. If what he/she says makes sense use it. If it's totally wrong trash can it. Asking the question in those terms might help you gain credibility. Keep in mind just because they are "veteran officials" doesn't mean that they are right and you are wrong.

Above all else trust your partner, trust your partner.....

[JRutledge]

What are you guys discussing during the pregame? I think at the very least you will get on the same page with understanding where each official is coming from. If officials are calling your line, it usually is because someone is either does not trust you, or does not realize that kind of thing would upset you. I would make a point to point out the things that have been happening over and over again with my partners.

I would also make a point to discuss these things at a meeting or with a more veteran official that you respect. You might find out that the individuals that you are working with are not very well respected. You would be surprised what your fellow officials have to say about these officials you have worked with.

I still think that your pregame conference can set a tone that will benefit your game. At least you can figure out you are dealing with a "not so good" official right off the bat, then you can adjust.

I would not worry about what coaches are going to think about you when you are new to them. That happens all over and is very typical when you work with guys that have been around.

Peace

[Junker]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. As far as pregame, so far I've only had JV and freshman games from this assignor. I try to be at the gym even for lower level games at least 20 minutes before tipoff, ready to go. In most of my games so far this year, pregame has consisted of meeting each other and shaking hands as that was about all we had time for. I hate to say anything about staying in your own area and such because I don't want to be the annoying new guy that thinks he knows everything.
The comments about them not knowing or trusting me got me thinking. What do you look for when working with someone for the first time? I know last night when my partner walked in just before tip off, grabbed the ball and left his watch on, I thought I might be in for a long night. Next I look for mechanics on the first couple of calls. I guess the most important to me is that they make eye contact with me as soon as there is any whistle. What do you all look for?

[David B]

Originally posted by Junker
Thanks for the thoughts everyone. As far as pregame, so far I've only had JV and freshman games from this assignor. I try to be at the gym even for lower level games at least 20 minutes before tipoff, ready to go. In most of my games so far this year, pregame has consisted of meeting each other and shaking hands as that was about all we had time for. I hate to say anything about staying in your own area and such because I don't want to be the annoying new guy that thinks he knows everything.
The comments about them not knowing or trusting me got me thinking. What do you look for when working with someone for the first time? I know last night when my partner walked in just before tip off, grabbed the ball and left his watch on, I thought I might be in for a long night. Next I look for mechanics on the first couple of calls. I guess the most important to me is that they make eye contact with me as soon as there is any whistle. What do you all look for?

If he's getting there last minute I would ask him about that. Hey I'm new to this area, is showing up at the last minute standard procedure here?

Well we need to go over a few things etc., So while you're waiting for them to warm up talk about it.

Checking the book takes about a minute, same with the coaches conference (we have one mandated by the state) and the captains mtgs. about 30 seconds.

So that gives you several minutes to talk.

The other option would be take the halftime and do it.

No matter what I would get on the same page. And as Dan mentioned it might take stepping on his toes with a few calls etc.,

Thanks
David

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Junker
Thanks for the thoughts everyone. As far as pregame, so far I've only had JV and freshman games from this assignor. I try to be at the gym even for lower level games at least 20 minutes before tipoff, ready to go. In most of my games so far this year, pregame has consisted of meeting each other and shaking hands as that was about all we had time for. I hate to say anything about staying in your own area and such because I don't want to be the annoying new guy that thinks he knows everything.

This explains a lot. There is a reason that many officials are working this level. If they did everything the way they were supposed to, they would be working varsity ball on a consistent basis. Now please no one tell me that "I work lower level games all the time." I do work those games as well from time to time, but I most of my schedule is not lower level games. Many of the guys you will come in contact either do not know any better and are younger officials. Or you have veterans that cannot get past that level for things they have not shown they can consistently do. Unfortunately that is the nature of many lower level games. That is never going to completely change no matter how experience of an official you become.

Originally posted by Junker
The comments about them not knowing or trusting me got me thinking. What do you look for when working with someone for the first time? I know last night when my partner walked in just before tip off, grabbed the ball and left his watch on, I thought I might be in for a long night. Next I look for mechanics on the first couple of calls. I guess the most important to me is that they make eye contact with me as soon as there is any whistle. What do you all look for?

I really am not sure I understand your question. The reason I stated having a pregame is very important is because it can set the tone for the game. You are not always going to have a 15-30 minute pregame. Many times it will be 2-5 minutes at that level. But you cover the major points that you will deal with like coverage area. Try to make sure both of you not watching the ball. Double whistles. Coverage of lines according to the mechanics. Eye contact and anything else that might be important to you. You cannot worry about how you are going to be perceived when a partner just shows up before tip-off. You have to cover what you can before the game and if you have to come together during timeouts and between quarters, you do that. Never be afraid to take charge. Maybe the assignor put you on the game with that partner so you could be the strong official. Do not just get frustrated. Take it as a challenge and a badge of honor.

Peace

[Junker]

Rut, thanks for the thoughts. My question was about specific things you look for with new partners once the game has begun. My big one is making eye contact at every whistle. When I see my partner making eye contact with me at all the early whistles, I know that it's going to be somewhat easy to get on the same page because there will be pretty good communication between us.