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-   -   My very first scrimmage ever is tonite! (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/16533-my-very-first-scrimmage-ever-tonite.html)

totalnewbie Thu Dec 02, 2004 02:13am

Sorry I havent posted in a while.

My first game was Saturday. A girls freshman game. I had a great partner. I did some things well and missed some things. But overall I was very pleased with myself. And there were several senior guys there evaluating people and they spent a good deal of time watching me. I was very encouraged by their comments. They all said that if they hadnt known I was new they would have thought that I was a 4 year official. I loved heraing that. I dealt with a coach very well (or so they said) and did some things they thought were great. I properly brought in subs before the first of 2 FTs when a player had been DQ'd. I stopped play and consulted with my partner when we had a 1 and 1, the girl hit the first and the other team went to inbound and my partner didnt stop it. So I waited a sec, then whistled it, went over and told him what I had and he corrected it and awarded the merited FT. The senior guys said I was getting my hands up nice and straight. They told me they agreed with all of my calls that I made and that they were well called and reported. They stressed that I needed (when trail) to watch for far side high action and that I missed a few travels on that side. We called about 40 fouls. It was 10/9 and 10/9 for fouls each half and into double bonus a few times as I remember. All the senior people were very enthusiastic about how well I did. Which of course made me happy. They said it was the best first game they could remember and said I should be very happy. Needless to say, I was geeked!!!

The game was a blow out. Of the many things I need to work on, one is definately game awareness. The first time I truly remember looking at the score was when I was watching for a last second shot befor half, at which time it was about 24-8 in favor of the home team. I was actually surprised how much cleaner this game (frosh girls) was than the freshman boys scrimmages that I worked. Wierd.

My second game is tomorrow (freshman girls again), so I'm sure I will mess up the stuff I did right last game :) Kidding. I'll try my best, but part of my good game had to be my partner. He was real cool and easy going. I have another game next wednesday (girls JV).

If I wasnt hooked before (which I was) I am addicted now. This is so much fun. And the kids just love it. Even the girls. They are so intense.

I liked instructing them on the freethrow lane spacing. It seemed like every shot it was "no blue, you cant be in that last space" or "white, you cant straddle the mark, you gotta be in or out of the space," or "blue, you gotta clear out of that spot if white wants it" etc.

Clark

jbduke Thu Dec 02, 2004 03:00am

Clark,

I can't tell you how refreshing it has been to read through all of your posts in this thread. I'm glad you're having a blast, and it sounds like you're extremely talented. I hope that your job, family, etc. will work out in the future so that you can go as far in this business as your desire and ability allow.

Your posts certainly read like ability is not going to be an issue. You clearly have a good feel for the game. I can tell you that that there are twenty-year vets who don't ever have the realization you did about the play near the bucket where your foul wiped out a lay-up. That's heady stuff. What you'll find is that even though you've already leaped the "officiating IQ" hurdle on that play, the toughest one has yet to be negotiatiated: patience...to see the whole play, letting it start, develop, and finish. This will come with experience, but in the meantime, you can try to use your thoughts to overpower the reflexes that cause you to put air in the whistle at the first sign of trouble (at least that's the instinct I fought when I started doing this). Have talks with yourself during the game, during plays. E.g., "Okay, he's gonna make a move to the bucket. I need to lock in the defender, check. Defender didn't get there. Shooter gets bumped off course a little, nothing yet, though, as it's still basically a lay-up. Wait, that bump did knock him off balance, that lay-up's coming up short, BANG!" That's when you blow. Don't take the specific example too literally, as there are obviously times when a play dictates an absolutely immediate whistle. In foul calling, though, I have benefitted a great deal from such thought exercises.

You're way ahead of the game, too, in realizing that your game awareness is not where you want it to be. this has been the least natural progression in my game; that may be, though, because I haven't worked on it as hard as I have other areas. Anyway, game awareness will pick up little by little (or maybe for you by leaps and bounds) as your comfort level increases and you are able to absorb more of your surroundings with less conscious effort. It's a lot easier to discipline yourself to sneak a peak at the clock at every whistle and at the beginning of each new possession when you don't feel like you're hanging on to the game by a thread.

I was struck by your comment about your style of running.
Don't be afraid to look athletic. In fact, try to look athletic. Different supervisors stress this to different degrees, but I've never, ever heard any official or supervisor say, "Man, that guy would have better credibility with players and coaches if he looked less athletic." If you look and run like you could be playing in the game as easily as officiating it, it can only help you with players and coaches. Everything you do and say becomes more believable, which translates to less garbage from those people, and thus a smoother game. Think about when you were playing, how you perceived an official who didn't look to have stepped onto a court before his first time picking up a whistle.

You're right on about running too much sometimes. As officials, we are cameras, constantly taking shots of the action, trying to evaluate those pictures as quickly as possible in order to make decisions about them. Still cameras take sharper pictures than bouncy ones, same same with us. Obviously, the clarity of our mental picture has to be weighed against how quickly we need that picture evaluated, but the point is the same: when you have a good angle on a play, stand pat and referee the play. Take advantage of the opportunity to take a sharp, complete picture. Alternatively, when you need to take a step, take a step. And when you need to haul ***, well, you get the picture.

I'll quit now. Keep working hard. Keep having fun. It doesn't feel as much like hard work when you're having fun.

Welcome to the club.

John



assignmentmaker Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:53am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by totalnewbie
[B]

Here was a bad one, right in front of the assigner. Guy in the post has the ball, defender reaches just as player spins, there is contact. I whistle it on the ground. I should have no called it since the guy would have easily freed himself for a dunk. By calling the foul I actually penalized the offensive player--now they have a throw in instead of a dunk. I knew it the second I called it. The lead assigner came over to me and asked me about that call. I told him what I just said. I said I should have held my whistle. He smiled and agreed and said it was good that I recognized that I should have held it.

-----------
And by not calling it you might well be penalizing the defender.

jbduke Wed Mar 23, 2005 01:32pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by assignmentmaker
[B]
Quote:

Originally posted by totalnewbie


Here was a bad one, right in front of the assigner. Guy in the post has the ball, defender reaches just as player spins, there is contact. I whistle it on the ground. I should have no called it since the guy would have easily freed himself for a dunk. By calling the foul I actually penalized the offensive player--now they have a throw in instead of a dunk. I knew it the second I called it. The lead assigner came over to me and asked me about that call. I told him what I just said. I said I should have held my whistle. He smiled and agreed and said it was good that I recognized that I should have held it.

-----------
And by not calling it you might well be penalizing the defender.

You're penalizing the defender? By not calling a foul on this play you're penalizing the defender? You're only penalizing the defender if the defender's intent was to foul and prevent a dunk. If that's the case, then if you're going to call a foul, you should rule it intentional. If you're advocating that this intentional foul be blown, I'll at least give you credit for consistency.

assignmentmaker Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:18am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jbduke
[B]
Quote:

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Quote:

Originally posted by totalnewbie


Here was a bad one, right in front of the assigner. Guy in the post has the ball, defender reaches just as player spins, there is contact. I whistle it on the ground. I should have no called it since the guy would have easily freed himself for a dunk. By calling the foul I actually penalized the offensive player--now they have a throw in instead of a dunk. I knew it the second I called it. The lead assigner came over to me and asked me about that call. I told him what I just said. I said I should have held my whistle. He smiled and agreed and said it was good that I recognized that I should have held it.

-----------
And by not calling it you might well be penalizing the defender.

You're penalizing the defender? By not calling a foul on this play you're penalizing the defender? You're only penalizing the defender if the defender's intent was to foul and prevent a dunk. If that's the case, then if you're going to call a foul, you should rule it intentional. If you're advocating that this intentional foul be blown, I'll at least give you credit for consistency.

"Intentional foul" is not synonymous with "did it on purpose".

jbduke Thu Mar 24, 2005 02:53pm

Whether the defender commits an "intentional foul," or simply "intentionally fouls," the point is that he's fouling in order to CHA for giving up great position. If the offensive player is good enough to play through contact that can reasonably be passed on, then why not let the guys play basketball?

blindzebra Thu Mar 24, 2005 03:09pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by assignmentmaker
[B]
Quote:

Originally posted by totalnewbie


Here was a bad one, right in front of the assigner. Guy in the post has the ball, defender reaches just as player spins, there is contact. I whistle it on the ground. I should have no called it since the guy would have easily freed himself for a dunk. By calling the foul I actually penalized the offensive player--now they have a throw in instead of a dunk. I knew it the second I called it. The lead assigner came over to me and asked me about that call. I told him what I just said. I said I should have held my whistle. He smiled and agreed and said it was good that I recognized that I should have held it.

-----------
And by not calling it you might well be penalizing the defender.


By not calling the foul you are not rewarding BAD defense, you let the play happen. That does not disadvantage the defender.

assignmentmaker Fri Mar 25, 2005 09:35am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by blindzebra
[B]
Quote:

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Quote:

Originally posted by totalnewbie


Here was a bad one, right in front of the assigner. Guy in the post has the ball, defender reaches just as player spins, there is contact. I whistle it on the ground. I should have no called it since the guy would have easily freed himself for a dunk. By calling the foul I actually penalized the offensive player--now they have a throw in instead of a dunk. I knew it the second I called it. The lead assigner came over to me and asked me about that call. I told him what I just said. I said I should have held my whistle. He smiled and agreed and said it was good that I recognized that I should have held it.

-----------
And by not calling it you might well be penalizing the defender.


By not calling the foul you are not rewarding BAD defense, you let the play happen. That does not disadvantage the defender.

I suppose your name is only moderately self-deprecating. You are why the game has deteriorated. There's a difference between not calling accidental contact on a rebound, where the defender clearly backs off and no harm has been done, and ignoring what you are presuming is bad defense. Call the foul. The offense will get to the bonus all the sooner. The defense will have it's players in foul trouble all the sooner. They will either back off and play better basketball or die an ugly death.

Jurassic Referee Fri Mar 25, 2005 09:54am

Quote:

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
[/B]
1) You are why the game has deteriorated.

2) There's a difference between not calling accidental contact on a rebound, where the defender clearly backs off and no harm has been done, and ignoring what you are presuming is bad defense. Call the foul. The offense will get to the bonus all the sooner. The defense will have it's players in foul trouble all the sooner. They will either back off and play better basketball or die an ugly death.

[/B][/QUOTE]1) That is an absolutely ridiculous statement. This call is a judgement call. Why is your judgement so much better than the other posters?

2) How come you are so sure it's a foul and not incidental contact? Doesn't NFHS rule 4-19 state that a personal foul is illegal contact that hinders an opponent from performing normal offensive movements? How did the normal offensive movement of the post player in this situation get hindered in any way, shape or form?

You may want to re-think your philosophy a little re: what is or isn't a foul. Calling pissant little contact fouls that don't really affect a play in any way isn't really the purpose and intent of the rules imo.

assignmentmaker Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:20am

You may want to just think.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
1) You are why the game has deteriorated.

2) There's a difference between not calling accidental contact on a rebound, where the defender clearly backs off and no harm has been done, and ignoring what you are presuming is bad defense. Call the foul. The offense will get to the bonus all the sooner. The defense will have it's players in foul trouble all the sooner. They will either back off and play better basketball or die an ugly death.

[/B]
1) That is an absolutely ridiculous statement. This call is a judgement call. Why is your judgement so much better than the other posters?

2) How come you are so sure it's a foul and not incidental contact? Doesn't NFHS rule 4-19 state that a personal foul is illegal contact that hinders an opponent from performing normal offensive movements? How did the normal offensive movement of the post player in this situation get hindered in any way, shape or form?

You may want to re-think your philosophy a little re: what is or isn't a foul. Calling pissant little contact fouls that don't really affect a play in any way isn't really the purpose and intent of the rules imo. [/B][/QUOTE]

"I should have no called it since the guy would have easily freed himself for a dunk."

Easily freed himself? That's not incidental contact. I told you what a good example of incidental contact is: a rebounder backs off when the other guy gets control. Don't substitute your judgement, or lack thereof, for 'punishing bad defense'. That's why penalty foul shots exist. Doing otherwise encourages sloppy play. My judgement is nonpareil, by the way.

Jurassic Referee Fri Mar 25, 2005 01:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by assignmentmaker


2) How come you are so sure it's a foul and not incidental contact? Doesn't NFHS rule 4-19 state that a personal foul is illegal contact that hinders an opponent from performing normal offensive movements? How did the normal offensive movement of the post player in this situation get hindered in any way, shape or form?

"I should have no called it since the guy would have easily freed himself for a dunk."

Easily freed himself? That's not incidental contact. I told you what a good example of incidental contact is: a rebounder backs off when the other guy gets control. Don't substitute your judgement, or lack thereof, for 'punishing bad defense'. That's why penalty foul shots exist. Doing otherwise encourages sloppy play. My judgement is nonpareil, by the way. [/B]
How 'bout Rule 10-6-1 then, Mr. Perfect? That one states <i>"Extending the arms fully or partially other than vertically so that freedom of movement of an opponemt is hindered when contact with the arms occurs is not legal. These positions are employed when rebounding when rebounding, screening or in various aspects of postplay"</i>. It seems that your nonpareil judgement also is telling us to call fouls even when the "freedom of movement" isn't hindered.

Methinks your nonpareil judgement is nonpareil because no one else(hopefully) has the poor judgement to consistently call the ticky-tack fouls you are telling us to call. Jmo, but I think that you need to find out there is a difference between a foul and incidental contact.

jbduke Fri Mar 25, 2005 03:00pm

JR,

Thanks for the vocabulary lesson. For anybody like me who didn't know, "nonpareil" means "without peer" or "unequaled."

Thanks also for firing back with such vigor to this guy. I'd not referee before I worked for an assignor like him.

blindzebra Fri Mar 25, 2005 03:16pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by assignmentmaker
[B]
Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Quote:

Originally posted by totalnewbie


Here was a bad one, right in front of the assigner. Guy in the post has the ball, defender reaches just as player spins, there is contact. I whistle it on the ground. I should have no called it since the guy would have easily freed himself for a dunk. By calling the foul I actually penalized the offensive player--now they have a throw in instead of a dunk. I knew it the second I called it. The lead assigner came over to me and asked me about that call. I told him what I just said. I said I should have held my whistle. He smiled and agreed and said it was good that I recognized that I should have held it.

-----------
And by not calling it you might well be penalizing the defender.


By not calling the foul you are not rewarding BAD defense, you let the play happen. That does not disadvantage the defender.

I suppose your name is only moderately self-deprecating. You are why the game has deteriorated. There's a difference between not calling accidental contact on a rebound, where the defender clearly backs off and no harm has been done, and ignoring what you are presuming is bad defense. Call the foul. The offense will get to the bonus all the sooner. The defense will have it's players in foul trouble all the sooner. They will either back off and play better basketball or die an ugly death.

What causes the game to deteriorate is the needless calls that take away the play from the contacted player. By calling this foul without a patient whistle you are rewarding the defender. You are also not bringing 4-27 or 10-6 into your judgment.

My philosophy is backed by rule support, yours is about power and controlling the life right out of the game.


Jurassic Referee Fri Mar 25, 2005 03:47pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jbduke
JR,

Thanks for the vocabulary lesson. For anybody like me who didn't know, "nonpareil" means "without peer" or "unequaled."

Thanks also for firing back with such vigor to this guy. I'd not referee before I worked for an assignor like him.

Dookie, his concept of all contact being a foul is certainly <b>nonpareil</b>. :)

I'm an assignor. I might be wrong, but I doubt very much if Assignmentmaker is also an assignor. I think that he just peddles the assigning software. He's entitled to his opinion on contact,of course, but his opinion isn't the popular one afaik.




assignmentmaker Fri Mar 25, 2005 04:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by jbduke
JR,

Thanks for the vocabulary lesson. For anybody like me who didn't know, "nonpareil" means "without peer" or "unequaled."

Thanks also for firing back with such vigor to this guy. I'd not referee before I worked for an assignor like him.

Dookie, his concept of all contact being a foul is certainly <b>nonpareil</b>. :)

I'm an assignor. I might be wrong, but I doubt very much if Assignmentmaker is also an assignor. I think that he just peddles the assigning software. He's entitled to his opinion on contact,of course, but his opinion isn't the popular one afaik.




Peddle? Pissant? Cherchez une life. I do 4K assignments, less than 100 times does an official, at any level, see the same team twice, yet strength of games and ability of officials is conserved.

Wanna bet your house against my vacuum cleaner about the truth?


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