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totalnewbie Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:17pm

Well, I am happy to say that my first Official's meeting will be monday evening at Valley High in Las Vegas.

In the time since my last post some months ago when I decided this is something I wanted to try I was able to secure the various rule books (rules, cartoon, case book, official's manual) from last season and have been reviewing them. I found a mentor. I'm a District Attorney and I found another local attorney to help me out who is a long time Ref in Vegas. We have talked. He led me in the right direction on equipment and what the local officials like to see in a squared away newbie. He and I are even meeting to do a couple private lessons on mechanics to get me tuned up. I gotta say it is great to have the help of an experienced official.

I've gotten another DA friend of mine all geeked up on the idea so he is going to get involved too.

My understanding is that this first meeting on monday is a "paperwork" kind of meeting. We will also get the most current books. Then the subsequent weeks are training classes and scrimmages. Then games begin end of November. I'm not sure when we take "the test" or what test it is exactly. As I understand it, once we pass the test we newbies will work HS Frosh girls games and boys games with a senior official at first until the association deems us qualified to get higher level games.

I am really excited. I'm 6/5" 225. I played HS ball and competitive ball in leagues for years. But recently with marriage and a daughter I havent really found the time and I have missed it immensely. I'm 37 and dont have much interest in getting into gym leagues with 21 year olds who just want to jack up 3s, so I thought officiating would be a fun way to get back into the game I love. And I like the idea of helping the HS kids develop sportsmanship and good clean competition.

So...any thoughts from all you vetrans out there for a newbie like myself who is just starting out? What things should I look for? What kind of stuff can I do to get a leg up on initial training? Any things you wish you knew or that someone had told you when you were first starting out?

Your help is appreciated.

Clark

blindzebra Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:32pm

You know the game, your size helps, but the main thing from the start is have a strong whistle and a good voice. Mechanics and judgement develop with experience, but you can control your whistle and voice from the get go.

Watch experienced officials work and be open to comments from them when you work. Try to pick a couple of things to work on every game, don't come to the game with a big list of things to work on.

Good luck.

zebraman Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:08am

totalnewbie,

You sound like you have your act together and are reffing for all the right reasons. Welcome to the club! Having been a player, you'll feel comfortable being on the court, even in a different role. That's a big help. Blindzebra gave you some good advice. Work lots of games.. work on one or two things each game. Pick up stuff from the refs you admire and ask them questions (99% of them love to share with the newbies). When it comes to mechanics (signals etc.), almost every new ref goes way to fast. Try to slow yourself down. And don't forget to have fun!

Z


som44 Sun Oct 24, 2004 09:25am


Make sure you know the rules--when I started a few years ago I was surprised by how many things I thought were the "rules" and in fact were not--Just thought i would mention this--above all enjoy yourself and have fun

ChuckElias Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:50am

Clark, here's a post I made to another newbie, but since the search function on the forum is kaput, here it is again. Hope it helps:

Here's my humble suggestions for improving as a brand new official. Seems to me that there are only 2 or 3 things that you totally control when you're just starting out. They are: 1) your knowledge of the rules; 2) your mechanics; 3) your appearance.

1) Know your rules cold. Read the book all the time, read the cases when your not reading the rules. Talk to fellow officials who know the rules about situations. Listen to your board interpreter at meetings. Know the rules cold.

2) Practice your mechanics as much as possible. Do this at home in front of a mirror. Watch yourself. Say "Tweet" (don't actually blow a whistle, or you'll go deaf) and make a foul signal. Or stop the clock and give a traveling signal. Do this as much as you can. If you can see yourself doing it, you'll know if your arm is really straight. (If your arms get tired, take a break and study your rule book.) You'll get into the habit of using a fist for fouls and open palm for violations. Get your signals right out in front of your chest. Practice reporting the foul to the table. Again, try to do this in front of a mirror if at all possible. It feels silly, but it helps, honest.

3) Don't scrimp on your uniform. Get black beltless pants (I prefer non-pleated Sansabelts, but you can buy other brands that still look nice). Get a good pair of black shoes and make 'em shine! People really do notice. If you have long hair or a slightly "unusual" hairstyle, get rid of it. (My first year I didn't want to cut my hair and I was called "pretty boy" by a fan. That convinced me real fast.) If you wear jewlery like a bracelet or chain or a watch, don't wear them on the court.

Finally, you just have to go out and work games. Lots and lots of games. See as much baskeball as you can. If you're not workig a game, go to a HS game and watch the officials. Take your rule book so you can study the rules during the time-outs. Then talk to the officials after the game, if they're available. Ask them about a situation from the game and why they handled it as they did. Then offer to buy them a couple beers at the local watering hole. Ok, that last part is probably not as important as the other stuff, but you get the idea.

Best of luck to you. Let us know how your first few games go. Have a great season.

Did I mention that you should study the rules? :)

Mark Padgett Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:12pm

Just remember the referee's motto:

"Occasionally wrong, but never indecisive".

Jurassic Referee Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:18pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Just remember the referee's motto:

"Occasionally wrong, but never indecisive".

I thought it was "Always tuck your whistle in during your pre-game leak".

WinterWillie Sun Oct 24, 2004 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally posted by totalnewbie
Well, I am happy to say that my first Official's meeting will be monday evening at Valley High in Las Vegas.


Clark


<i>I read a magazine article a few years ago that stated that Las Vegas was experiencing a tremendous growth spurt and that HS's were being built everywhere. As a result of that growth,there was a tremendous need for sport officials to work in that area- particularly basketball referees. This should offer you a great opportunity to get the experience you need to advance in your avocation. An added bonus will be that, since there is such phenomenal growth in the area, you will have numerous opportunities to work with veteran officials and ample room for advancement without having to leap frog over established officials</i>


Mark Padgett Sun Oct 24, 2004 03:24pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Just remember the referee's motto:

"Occasionally wrong, but never indecisive".

I thought it was "Always tuck your whistle in during your pre-game leak".

You're right. The first statement is our creed, not our motto.

totalnewbie Sun Oct 24, 2004 06:20pm

I appreciate your thoughts. Keep them coming. I hate to admit it, but I never even noticed on the foul diagram that fouls were a fist and violations were an open palm. :)

Good idea practicing the signals. I have to remember that not only do I have to call teh foul/violation right but I also have to signal it right and I have to worry about starting and stopping the clock. My plan is to have my friend who I dragged into this call out things to me and I have to signal it right and say what I would do. Then I can do it for him.

"Travel"
"tweet, [raise arm with open palm, travel signal, indicate direction, indicate throw in spot]" etc.

Yes, Vegas is badly in need of officials which is why when I called they were happy to bring me in and when I said I had a buddy who was interested they were doubly excited. :)

Looks like we work 2 man for Frosh and JV (?), and 3 man for Varsity, which I wont have to worry about for some time or so I hear.

Please keep the suggestions coming.

Here is a quesiton. I appreciate why teh rule book is organized how it is organized, but it isnt exactly a model of clarity. Is there any reference that does a better job breaking down the types of fouls and violations, etc?

Clark

ChuckElias Sun Oct 24, 2004 06:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by totalnewbie
Is there any reference that does a better job breaking down the types of fouls and violations, etc?
The casebook helps to give you examples of what the rule is saying. If you have both books, you can look at the rule and then flip right to the same number in the casebook and see the relevant play. That will help.

There's also (so I'm told) an "Illustrated" rule book, kind of like a comic book that gives pictures of the different rules. I'm sure you can get it from the FED website, or maybe from a local sporting goods store that caters to officials. Good luck.

rainmaker Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:33am

Quote:

Originally posted by totalnewbie
Here is a quesiton. I appreciate why teh rule book is organized how it is organized, but it isnt exactly a model of clarity. Is there any reference that does a better job breaking down the types of fouls and violations, etc?

Clark

As a lawyer, you will find this very frustrating. The most blatant problem is that words that sound just like normal American-English words are used with specific jargon-type meanings, but there aren't necessarily clear, concise definitions anywhere. Compounding this problem, coaches who read the rule book and think they understand the situation don't know about the "altered" meanings of normal words, and thus unknowingly design plays and coach their kids in ways that are illegal.

An example is rule 9-3. It says, "A player shall not cause the ball to go out of bounds." That sounds pretty straightforward, doesn't it? Unfortunately, the average Joe who offers to coach his nephew's 7th grade team doesn't realize that "cause" has a specific definition which is much different from the one he would use in everyday conversation. The rule book does clarify in 7-2-1, "The ball is caused to go out of bounds by the last player in bounds to touch it or be touched by it, unless..." But that doesn't necessarily make it any easier to understand. Why not just change 9-3 to say, "A player shall not be the last to touch the ball before it goes out of bounds."? A similar muddying of the waters occurs on the subject of the backcourt violation.

The only thing you can do is to keep asking questions, keep reading, keep studying. And think up reasonable explanations for the few coaches who try to study the rule book, but haven't yet learned the rules.


totalnewbie Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:27pm

Someone already gave me what seems to be a good "generic" line for dealing with coaches:

"I didnt see it that way coach, but I'll watch for it on both ends."

What do you guys think about that one? Being a newbie, I'm not really in a position to judge if it is good or not. But it seems to be. And the guy who gave me that one is a senior guy.

Do you guys have any good, neutral responses that placate the coach yet dont really admit an error while at the same time saying I'm going to watch it on both sides, not just against the other team. Seems like if I have a few of these in my back pocket I will be less likely to say something that might just cause more problems.

Clark

Camron Rust Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by totalnewbie
Someone already gave me what seems to be a good "generic" line for dealing with coaches:

"I didnt see it that way coach, but I'll watch for it on both ends."

What do you guys think about that one? Being a newbie, I'm not really in a position to judge if it is good or not. But it seems to be. And the guy who gave me that one is a senior guy.

Do you guys have any good, neutral responses that placate the coach yet dont really admit an error while at the same time saying I'm going to watch it on both sides, not just against the other team. Seems like if I have a few of these in my back pocket I will be less likely to say something that might just cause more problems.

Clark

Good line, just be careful not to over use it. Any coach will get tired of hearing it a dozen times.

totalnewbie Mon Oct 25, 2004 01:02pm

Yeah, thats why I was hoping you guys could give me a few more :)

rainmaker Mon Oct 25, 2004 01:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by totalnewbie
Someone already gave me what seems to be a good "generic" line for dealing with coaches:

"I didnt see it that way coach, but I'll watch for it on both ends."

What do you guys think about that one? Being a newbie, I'm not really in a position to judge if it is good or not. But it seems to be. And the guy who gave me that one is a senior guy.

Do you guys have any good, neutral responses that placate the coach yet dont really admit an error while at the same time saying I'm going to watch it on both sides, not just against the other team. Seems like if I have a few of these in my back pocket I will be less likely to say something that might just cause more problems.

Clark

If the coach wants information, give it to him in a neutral tone of voice. C: "What did he do?" Ref: "He got his arm". C: "Why aren't you calling those 3-seconds?" Ref: "He's stepping out every time."


If he's just venting, I say, "Thank you." I try to look him in the eye, if possible, when I say it, and then just leave. I'm not sure why this works, but it really has been good for me. The sentence that your friend recommended is a little long for a lot of situations. But it definitely has it's place!

Jurassic Referee Mon Oct 25, 2004 01:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by totalnewbie

Do you guys have any good, neutral responses that placate the coach yet dont really admit an error while at the same time saying I'm going to watch it on both sides, not just against the other team. Seems like if I have a few of these in my back pocket I will be less likely to say something that might just cause more problems.


The best neutral reponse, imo, is just nodding your head to acknowledge to the coach that you heard him. Silence can never be mis-quoted.

Larks Mon Oct 25, 2004 01:44pm

My advice....

Be patient.

Work games at levels you feel comfortable with but dont be afraid to stretch yourself and take a game or two at the next level here and there to get a feel for where you are. You will likely control your ability to do that up through JV. Varsity will call you when you are ready.

If you work your way into FR and JV - Stay and watch the varsity whenever you can. Get to know the varsity guys. Ask them questions. Ask them for feedback on your game.

Go to a one or two camps for at least two years. It will save you years of "figuring it out" and expose you to varsity basketball in an environment that you cant screw up. When you do go to camp, ears open, mouth shut.

Read this forum (especially during the season) and dont be afraid to ask questions. Since the search function is still off, even the beginner type questions are fine. We'll be gentle.

Dont ignore coaches. Communicate as much as you can.

Always Hustle

Dress the part

and my # 1. Find a mentor. No sense in figuring it all out on your own especially the politics.

Larks - VIT
(Veteran In Training)




Kris3333 Mon Oct 25, 2004 03:03pm

These are posted on the NFHS website:

Behavior/Question/Comment from Coach Official’s Response
Coach sees the play very differently than the official.

“Coach, if that’s the way it happened/what you saw, then I must have missed it. I’ll take a closer look next time.”

“Coach, I understand what you’re saying, however, on that play, I didn’t see it that way. I’ll keep an eye for it on both ends.”

“Coach, I had a good look at that play and here’s what I saw [short explanation].”

“Coach, I understand what you’re saying, but my angle was different than yours.”

“Coach, I had a great look at that play, but I understand your question and I’ll have the crew keep an eye on it.”

“Coach, I had that play all the way and made the call.”
Coach believes you’re missing persistent illegal acts by the other team. “Ok coach, we’ll watch for that.”

“Coach, we are watching for that on both ends of the court.”
--------------------------

Coach is questioning a partner’s call. “Coach, that’s a good call, as a crew we have to make that call.”


“We’re calling it on both ends.”

“Coach, they were right there and had a great angle.”

“Coach, we’re not going there, I can’t let you criticize my teammate.”

“Coach, they had a great look, but if you have a specific question, you’ll have to ask them, they’ll be over here in just a minute.”

-----------------------------
Coach is very animated and gesturing.

“Coach, I’m going to talk with you and answer your questions, but you must put your arms down/stop the gesturing.”

“Coach, please put your arms down. Now, what’s your question?”

-----------------------------
Coach is raising their voice asking the question.

“Coach, I can hear you/I’m standing right here, you don’t need to raise your voice.”

"Coach, I need you to stop raising your voice and just ask your question calmly.”

-----------------------------
Coach is commenting on something every time down the floor.

“Coach, I need you to pick your spots, we can’t have a comment on every single call that is being made.”

-----------------------------
Coach has a good point and might be right.

“You’ve got a good point and might be right about that play.”

“You might be right, that’s one we’ll talk about at halftime/intermission/the next time out.”

“You might be right; I may not have had the best angle on that play.”

------------------------------
Coach is venting, make editorial comments.

“I hear what you’re saying”

“I hear what you’re saying, but we’re moving on.”

------------------------------
Coach just won’t let it go.

“I’ve heard enough and that’s your warning.”

ChrisSportsFan Tue Oct 26, 2004 01:23pm

use your height to your advantage, i'm 6'6" and have had to break a habit of leaning to get an angle. the right thing to do is take a step one way or another, but ref tall.

watch other officials. recognize the things they do right and imitate, also recognize the things you want to make sure not to do.

others have already said to practice at home in front of a mirror, plus when you work lower level games, have an item(mechanic) or 2 that you want to focus on that day, get it down and you'll be suprised how quickly it will become habit. keep reminding yourself what you're working on and you can master it real quick. hopefully the next time out, you can tackle another one.

remember that you're doing this because you love the game, coaches are just a necessary evil, and fans can be worse. enjoy their comedy factor.

comment to coach; "i'll work harder"

Goose Tue Oct 26, 2004 03:30pm

Another 2 cents
 
Let me just say that I know where you are coming from. Although I am not 6'5", I hung up the shoes after a successful career. Basically, playing was not a lot of fun any longer. And don't take this the wrong way, but I thought I knew a lot too at first seeing that I had played quite a bit of ball, but nothing could have been further from the truth. I had game knowledge, but didn't know anything about the actual rules. So prepare yourself for a shock.

Apart from the advice given here, which BTW is all good, I just want to add a couple of things to your growing list.

First, work, work, work. Take all the games you can get. The more you work, the more you see, the more you miss, the more experience you gain. In other words, the more you work, the more comfortable you will become on court and the more situations you will have encountered. Officiating is basically dealing with situations (i like to say situational ethics). Calling lines is easy, it is dealing with situations and more importantly dealing with people that in my opinion go a long way in making a good official.

Secondly, try not to become upset when things do not go well which is often when you are just starting. In other words, when you screw up and/or get yelled at constantly, don't take it personally. Not that it is part of the game, but it is part of the game. If you become visibily upset, people will see it and then know how to turn your screws. So, try and relax and realize that all of us in here have screwed up many times and have been yelled at too. Also, remember that on any given call, you can only please 50 percent of the people. Some will love ya, and some will want to kill ya....aviod the ones that want to kill you BTW.

Somehow, if you can overcome the constant attacks by players, coaches, and fans, you will be on your way.

What it comes down to is that you need a balance. You need good rule knowledge, mechanics, appearance, and intestinal fortitude. After all that, have some fun! Despite the horror or war stories, it has been a lot of fun for me over the years. I have enjoyed it and I'm glad that some official saw me playing 19 years ago and encouraged me to become a official.

goose

p.s. I can confirm that Chuck was a pretty boy when he came on the board!! I remember it well!!

totalnewbie Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:29am

thanks!
 
thanks everyone for the advice.

goose, i appreciate your comments. I'm a DA so I am used to getting yelled at by judges. I can handle getting yelled at. Fans cant be much worse. Losing my cool shouldnt be an issue. I'll let you know when I do my first game, though :)

Right now I am just trying to soak stuff up. "Open Ears, Closed Mouth". Heck, I'm doing more talking here in asking for advice than I have to any officials in my area (other than a few mentors). The good thing about being a newbie is I know that I know nothing. :)

I've got a buddy and he and I are quizzing each other on rules. Next week we'll start trying to get the whole call, from whistle to stop clock to signal to indication to report, etc. I'm putting my whole Type A personality into really digging into it. The advice that the three things I can control are rules, appearance and attitude makes a lot of sense to me.

The first association meeting was cool. Looks like about 200+ officials. We use the CBOA materials, apparently, to teach new officials to ref. Our meetings are every monday and the exam is 11/8.

Thanks again and please keep the advice coming. It seems that lots of people are saying "pick one or two things to work on." Any suggestions on what those first few things should be?

We are 3 man at Varsity and 2 man below that. I guess I will be getting freshman girls and boys games to start, which are two man. Any suggestions on things to start with on two man mechanics?

How about partners? What is the best way for a newbie to deal with his first partners?

Clark

[Edited by totalnewbie on Oct 27th, 2004 at 01:31 AM]

Goose Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:53pm

More stuff
 
Here are a couple of things to start on, plus a few pointers.

Again, don't get discouraged WHEN you miss a call. It will happen and I can say that after 18 years, it still happens.

As an ex player, one of the biggest problems you will have to overcome is watching play off the ball. As a player we are all taught to keep your eye on the ball etc. As an official, when the ball is out of your area, you need to train yourself to watch off the ball. You will be amazed at how much you can see, by not keeping sole focus on the ball.

The absolute best advice I ever got, and this is from our board's interpreter, is to referee the defense. This goes along with watching off the ball. If you referee the defense, the block-charge call will become quite easy as well as a host of other contact related issues.

I will say that another difficult thing for me was simply blowing the whistle. This was before the advent of the Fox40 which is easy to blow. The old Acme whistles had a pea in them and it took quite an effort to avoid the trill sound and get that quick blast. Secondly, there is just a stigma associated with hearing a whistle IMO. You know, police and such. At first, it terrified me because when you blow the whistle, everything will (should) stop and all the focus in the entire gym will come down on you. This is where others in here have said you need to be strong with your calls even if you have a doubt, you can never let anyone know you are not sure. As time goes on you will hear a phrase "selling your call", and this is where that will come in.

In other words, if your whistle is weak, or you look indifferent, no matter how good the call actually is, it will appear that you either are in doubt or you really don't know what you are doing, and truth be told, when that happens, it usually means you are in for a looooong game.

Rule knowledge is important, but believe me, once the game starts, you will have so many things going on, that you won't have time to think about rule 4.1 or is it rule 5.2a. You will simply need to react.

Best thing I can tell you, early on is to try and get into good position on the court. Train yourself to work off the ball when it is out of your area. Speak clearly and SLOW DOWN when reporting fouls to the table. Hustle. If you are in position there isn't a lot a coach can say, but if you are out of position, he/she will question why you are out there.

Lastly, have a sense of humor. It is O.K. to show a personal side. Don't be Joe-stoneface and appear unapproachable. That does not mean you have to crack jokes, but it is O.K. to be personable to the players, coaches, and staff, and yes, the fans.

goose

ChuckElias Wed Oct 27, 2004 03:16pm

Re: More stuff
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Goose
The absolute best advice I ever got, and this is from our board's interpreter, is to referee the defense.
Good advice. "Referee the defense". Unfortunately, unless you've reffed for a while, you probably don't know what that means. "Referee the defense" means that whenever you are officiating a competitive matchup, you see the ball, but you focus on the defender's position and movement. Why? Well, if you know that the defender had legal guarding position and you know that s/he didn't move forward into the dribbler, then when there's a crash, you also know that this cannot be a blocking foul. It's either PC or nothing.

On the other hand, if you're focused on the dribbler and watching him/her drive from the 3-point arc, then when there's a crash, you probably didn't even see the defender until contact occured. You have no idea whether that defender had legal position or not. So you have to guess as to whether it's a block or charge. Not a good feeling.

So see the ballhandler, but referee the defender. Will you miss a travel? Yes. Will you miss a block/charge? No. Well, maybe, but you'll still be miles ahead of the other newbies. :)

Quote:

In other words, if your whistle is weak, or you look indifferent,
Perception is "hugely" important. If you make facial expressions, they will be seen. If you look bored, people will ask your partner if you'd rather be someplace else. I know a guy who is a good official, but who is soooooo nonchalant, that people talk about it (coaches and other officials). A former president of my HS board was told as a newbie that he made an "angry" face when calling a foul. He wasn't angry, but people do pick up on those things. He had to teach himself not to react that way when blowing the whistle. People notice.

williebfree Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:46pm

more advice
 
Communicate with your partner... Mostly I am talking about non-verbal things, such as EYE CONTACT BEFORE YOU ADMINISTER THE BALL for a throw-in, etc...

The other area of non-verbal communication the need to focus on VERY deliberate mechanics. (This is another way of saying S_L__O____W D___O___W__N.)

Do not dispair, it will get better with more experience!

totalnewbie Sun Oct 31, 2004 03:02am

brotherbfree?
 
williebfree-

you arent by any chance the long lost brother of basketball superstar "world b free" are you?

SMEngmann Sun Oct 31, 2004 05:36am

One other thing that I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned yet that is huge for officials and everyone in athletics is confidence. If you go out on the floor worried about not screwing up then you'll have a hard time actually officiating the game because you'll constantly be officiating yourself. You are ahead of most newbies in that you've shown the dedication and desire to know the proper rules/mechanics and get help, so when you get on the floor, you can work on your stuff, but trust what you put into it. I think all officials, especially newbies, should have a sort of competitive attitude in which they know they're capable of calling the game. Sure you'll miss calls, but don't dwell on them. I think the ability to deal with mistakes and adversity by putting them in the rear-view mirror is a trait that all athletes must have and all officials must have in order to be successful.


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