Does anyone have the key to the Part 1 exam? Thanks.

tjones1

I haved checked my test answers on one of the boards for the last 5 years. I am waiting also on this board or the other one for the answers to be posted. I am a State Tourney official. I have officiated for over 20 years. I do the tests! I don't want to hear the stuff about cheating or not studying etc. It is just nice to know if you have them right or if they are wrong I can research what wording I messed up in the question.

Why can't you research the wording that you messed up when you get your test back? Isn't your test marked and returned? :confused:

Yes, I do. If you want a copy, just leave $500,000 in small unmarked bills behind the third tree from the lemonaide stand in the park. You will receive the key in the mail.

Oh yeah - I forgot to ask if you're interested in buying the Brooklyn Bridge, too.

Check your email.
 

I emailed you the answers.

You are always going to get this response from people across the country. I guess they think the only time anyone can pick up a rulebook is to take these tests. So they answer these questions the same way.

Hope you get what you need from my email.

Peace

Thanks Rut. I know you get bashed here from time to time. I am sided with you on the importance of the test.
I don't think it is a bad thing to test.......but that does not make you a good official. Officiating makes you a better official.

Re: Check your email.
 

If you have the answers, I would like a copy also.

Thanks.

If it's not too much of a bother, I'd like a copy also.

[email protected]

Hey Rut,

If it wouldn't be too much of a bother could you send them to [email protected]

Thanks,

P.S.
If you send them to me, I'll take care of all the requests that come in after.

Can you please send me the answers as well...my email is [email protected]

Thanks!

Jeff

Next year...
 

I think next year we should have an "online meeting" type deal on this forum and go over the exam. Just like what happens when you attending your Club meeting. We could create a thread, each take a couple questions, answer it, and if someone disagrees....battle it out! Although there might be a lot of hitting the refresh button, I think there would be something to gain out of it.....then again, maybe not. What do you all think?

I agree completely. We should have each active member responsible for 1 question. He/she then has to answer the question, with a rule reference and a brief explanation. It could work.

Test
 

Funny how certain people were so quick to criticize, but there sure are alot of people who want the answers, just were afraid to be the one to ask!

It's open book test, so it's not like the answers are a big secret anyway. It's here to LEARN from, not for them to trip us up.

Besides, what are they going to do if we don't pass - Fire us? HA HA HA HA HA

Re: Test
 

In my assoc if we do not score 80% or better then we are not eligable to do districs or State playoff games

Re: Test
 

In some states. It is closed book.

It could also serve as a liablilty limiter for the association since the state establishes the qualifications of the officials and the associaiton only administers the test (similar to the background checks).

If...
 

If it is closed book, then what does it matter? It would mean that it would be a supervised exam, therefore they wouldn't have access to any posted key (ie internet). Or.... did I miss something?

Re: If...
 

The purpose of any test is to determine what you know by sampling the various topics. The point of having a closed book test is to encourage you to study the entire set of topics, not just the answers to the test.

If a person has a copy of the test they only need to study the content of the test...if even that. They could also just memorize certain answers if they don't know or understand them. They may not even bother studying or learning.


A lot of people simply want a copy of the answers so they don't have to put in the work themselves.

(These are the same kind people who slept through algebra in the 9th grade...or never even took algebra...and are now complaining because, without skills or knowledge, they can't land a decent job.)

Also note that, since it is a T/F test, a monkey (read coach if you wish ;) ) could score 50% on the test by plotting their team's hit/miss pattern as his answers.

So, someone scoring 60-70% really doesn't know very much.

Bingo. I don't disagree with you at all. However, I do the tests and then go back over them and see what my mistakes were. By the same token, I know that probably some people just want the answers to complete the test and get it out of the way. However, they are going to be the ones who pay when they are on the floor and they blow/miss a call.

Re: Re: If...
 

Surely there might be some guess work, but I've found that in a closed setting, the ones who missed them on test 1 are going to miss the same type of question in Test 2 because so
many of the questions have a little twist.

So, I like to have the answers to be able to see what I'm missing because many times, the same situations will come up in the ballgames that we officiate.

Practice might make perfect, but only when its perfect practice.

Many many officials miss the same things night after night after night simply because no one corrected their mistaken interpretation.

I personally think the test make the officials get in the book because they usually cover just about every section of the rules in some manner.

Since we use Test 2 for our grading test 1 is a very good help.

Thanks
David

Someone else on my side!
 

YES!!!!!!!!!
I've been saying this on this forum for quite a while now. I've demonstrated mathematically how someone who only knows 50% of the answers would be expected to score a 75, by just guessing on the 50 questions that they didn't know. They don't even have to read them!

To score 60-70%, one only need know 20-40% of the answers! Can you imagine working with a partner that only got 20-40% of his calls correct?!?! What a nightmare!

Answers
 

If you would be so kind as to add me to your list to get a copy of the answers I would appreciate it..
email address: [email protected]

I have taken test and would like to check the answers..

Thanks

Re: If...
 

It's not that hard to memorize 100 T/F answers -- although it was easier when the test was neatly broken into 25 groups of 4 questions.

Re: Re: If...
 

Again, if they choose to do this. They are only cheating themselves as they will pay for it on the court.

Thanks for the reply Jeff.

Please send to [email protected]

I'd just like the key so I can figure out the answer to the 2 or 3 questions that the NFHS always poorly words each year. My wife - who doesn't referee, never played basketball, and doesn't follow the game except to watch her husband do an occasional game or 2 - isn't involved into the intricacies of rules study and she got a 78 last year, so we're not talking about the need to really cheat here.

[Edited by ShadowStripes on Oct 28th, 2004 at 11:49 AM]

Is there anyone that asked that I did not send an email to?

I cannot remember everyone I emailed the answers to. Please email me at [email protected] if you need the test.

Peace

It is cheating...
 

Jeff,
Because some of this has been covered here and on other sites, I'm surprised by some of the IHSA officials replies.

No matter the NFHS sport, the importance of the OPEN BOOK test is to inform and evaluate. An official that obtains the answers and then takes the test has done more than just cheat him/herself. While some may indeed have taken the test long ago and are only looking to verify their suspicions, others will be using this to cheat.

In Illinois, we can take the Part 1 test online and the score will be posted immediately. About a month later the answer key is posted. It never fails though, one guy will get a perfect score and be rightfully proud. His friends will ask to "check" their answers and blame the wording as a perennial stumbling block. Now they take the test and ...WOW...get a perfect score, as well. In this state, one of the many factors that is computed into playoff assignments is your Part 1 score! How fair is it to pass along a bogus test to the guys who score a 92 without help?

Officiating is about keeping things fair. You have just compromised the process and done a tremendous disservice to those officials that aren't capable of achieving on or off the court. I disagree with those that think it will all wash out on the field or court. By then, it's too late - now the players, coaches and fans have to see that you didn't know the actual rule.

If your name was JJ, Alstadt or Olsen, I would still report you to the IHSA. Copies of your transmissions have been forwarded to them. It is sad that you took pride in helping others cheat.

I had to come back and edit this. I just went online and saw that in our state, the Part 1 Test is open until November 15th! You emailed answers to people that still have time to take the test!

[Edited by WindyCityBlue on Oct 27th, 2004 at 03:43 PM]

Tanner, it's probably best to ignore him. He's only here to try to antagonize Rut. He adds absolutely nothing of value to this forum.

I agree! Thanks Chuck for the words of wisdom!!

Re: It is cheating...
 

JRut, are these points true? Just wondering.

If these points are true, and an official's online Part 1 test score is related to possible playoff assignments, then I would certainly agree that using supplied answers is just plain wrong. I believe that some other states also use the Part 1 exam as their official exam too, and haven't formally written the test yet either. I get the marking key sheet for both the NFHS Part 1 and 2 tests every year, but I am very careful who I send them too. And, btw, every year I personally write the test closed book to see what I know and where I need to get my head into the book. Iow, I pretty much agree with Camron Rust's take on this.

Go right ahead Windy.
 

<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_28_100.gif' alt='' border=0></a>


Dave Gannaway told officials at the IHSA Convention, that he encouraged officials to talk about the test and go over it. So anyone can report me, I have the right, and I will continue to give the test to anyone that wants it. It is up to them how they use it and how they want to take the test. This is an open book test that does use the results as a single factor for playoff consideration. They also consider official ranking (promotional level), Top 15 list percentile, coaches/officials ratings percentile, and previous playoff experience. Each of these things I just mentioned has equal consideration. Each category has 5 points depending on what your ranking or level is to accumulate a 30 Point Power rating. The test is one thing you actually can control. All the others an individual official cannot control how many points. The test can be done online or thru the mail. When you do it online, they tell you immediately what your score is. I received a 99 doing the test basically on my own and confirmed my score with others that took the test. This is very common and done in our state with just about every single official's association that I belong to and that I do not belong to. As a matter of fact, check all the agendas with IHSA Official's Associations on their website and they talk about Review of the Part 1 Exam. If this was a secret, it would not be on the associationÂ’s official website. Some even talk about what questions they will go over.

So Windy, report me. Pass this on to whoever you like. The head of the Official's Department said it was OK and many were kind of surprised. But if he has no problem with that, I do not have a problem with it. Every state uses these test differently and if they choose to take the answers, that is on them. It is not my job to set the standards of every state in the country. Many states create their own tests or require the test to be close book. As I have stated before, the only time anyone has to take the Part 2 in this state is if they are going for promotion. Once an official reaches the "Certified" level, they do not have to ever take the Part 2 Exam ever again. I am currently at that level in basketball where I never have to take that exam ever again if I pay my dues each year.

Windy, attend some meetings outside of UMPS sometime and you just might learn something. Every association I belong to distributes the test. Mostly what we use it for is to go over the rules and spark further discussion. The test is not much different than going to a rules meeting as a requirement (also a requirement to work playoffs) and sparks many debates about the rules and how to apply the rules.

BTW, November 15 is for the State of Illinois, not for everyone else. I personally do not know of anyone from the State of Illinois that has asked for the test. BTW, the association I belong to just went over the test last night. I have another association that will go over it next week. Be my guest. Because many of the folks that asked for the test thru email, do not take this test as a requirement. If it helps them study for another state run test that is there business.

Peace

Why so defensive? I know IHSA policy and you just broke it. You really should read the code of conduct for officials.

The Part 1 test is just a study aid, right? Those extra points don't mean much unless you're trying to get an IHSA Sectional or Super-Sectional assignment.

Dave and Kurt don't advocate disseminating the answers during the testing period. I know that Anthony had a problem with it, too.

If it is as innocent as you say, you have nothing to worry about. But, I couldn't help noticing that you are proud to be on the IHSA Officials Convention Committee. I hope this doesn't jeopardize that. You see, discussing questions amongst yourselves or covering parts of the test in training sessions is quite different from sending them out to anyone who asks, prior to the end of testing. BTW, in which states is the test closed already? Yes, you have nothing to worry about.


[Edited by WindyCityBlue on Oct 27th, 2004 at 05:41 PM]

Not in my book. It never will be.
 

Well that is up to your state to decide how they are going to use the test. I disagree with your position on this and you and no one else will change my mind. The test is widely distributed and if someone has to rely on the test they are doing themselves a major disservice. There are 11 Months out of the year when they can read and study the rulebook. You need to read and study the rulebook (not the test) to learn rules. I personally every year go over every test question and try to find every rule. That is far and above what most people do and because of that I learn more about the rules. I also am asked many questions and get into many debates about rules and practical application. Sometimes there are major disagreements but you learn more about the game by having those discussions than just taking the test. I have participated in a get together with other officials where we go over the test every year. We do it at an officialÂ’s house and go over every question and discuss the reason the answers are true or false. When I was in college, you were very lucky if you ever saw a T/F test. Usually they were essay or written answer tests. True/False tests do not prove anything. If that makes me a bad person, then I will have to be a bad person.

Peace

I will see Kurt on November 6 at Hoffman Estates. I am will talk to him myself. BTW, Kurt was standing right next to Dave when he made the comment at the Convention.

Fire away Windbag!! ;)

Peace

I just copied Mary Struckhoff at NFHS.

Keep supplying us with ammo, genius.
Even JR, someone who never agrees with me, sees the folly of your plight. Sometimes anonymity is a beautiful thing.

Wow, Mary Struckoff? I am really scared now. Remind me to shiver a little when after I laugh excessively with your comments. I do not care whether JR agrees with you. I have disagreed with him on this issue before you even knew where this site was located. Probably before you got the internet on your computer. Also, it is not like Mary was well respected when she was here. And it is not the case with many of the people in place today. Report away. I am still laughing at your sorry behind.

BTW, Marty Hickman (former NF Basketball Committee Member) was at the front of the room. So were Anthony Holman, Beth Seuer (sp?), and any other Assistant Executive Director I could think of. So go right ahead. Kurt would have to take an issue with every single Officials association that holds meetings. Keep emailing everyone if you like. Not one objected or made an issue out of the comments from the person that runs the entire Official's Department.

Peace

Yes, and I'm sure that they said it was acceptable protocol to give the answers out online, during the actual testing phase. The hole is getting deeper.

Actually he did. He sure did not say not to go over the test; he thought it made since to go over the test with fellow officials. But like I said, you were not there. Not all states use this test the same way. So the people I am giving the test to are not even from Illinois. So what is your point?

Oh, I forgot, you are going to email Mary. Remind me again to shake a little. ;)

Peace

Don't ever speak for JR, Windy. Ever.

I missed this post.
 

Actually no Windy. Because if everyone is getting the same score or similar score, I am sure you need a lot more than 5 points. You get points for passing the test. You might not get any points in the other categories. Someone has to think you are a good official to work that level of ball, not your power rating. But you knew that right?

Interesting that you have not once mentioned Beth in this discussion at all. Beth is an equal person to Kurt. All four of these individuals that we are talking about all run a sport (Beth as Girl's Basketball btw) or multiple sports. When Dave made these comments, everyone of importance was sitting in the room. Not a single person said a word or disagreed or said anything in opposition. They had every opportunity to do so then in front of official's association representatives and other IHSA leadership. Dave was responding to a question about this issue as well. So it was not like you could take his comments out of context.

It won't. If anyone had a problem with it, they can call me directly. I just spoke to someone this weekend and they have my number. So report it, they can talk to me. I will see another head clinician on Friday and he can say something to me if he likes. I just find it funny that you are so out of touch it is really sad. You make it sound like I have never had a conversation with any of these individuals or I will not have conversations with them in the future.

I am responding to you because you are misrepresenting the issue to everyone that can read this post. You have name dropped before to try to scare me in the past and think that means something. It did not do anything the last time you made that threat and it will not do anything this time. If the IHSA does not want us to figure out what the answers are, then they do not have to tell us what our score is until the testing period is completely over. They told me what my score was (as they do with everyone) and showed me my answers. I bounced off my answers as many people do to see which one I got wrong (I had a 99). So keep it up, you are just making it funny for everyone else here with you comical point of view.

And if you think a State Final is determined by the test score, you are further out of the loop than you have tried to represent. The power rating might get you in the playoffs, it sure does not advance your possibilities.

Peace

Rut: You have mail. Thanks.

Windy,

I will see Dave on Friday. Maybe we will talk about your email. :D

Peace

Yeah, this thread is getting complicated. Here's the Cliff Notes version in the form of a 1 act morality play that might help us all follow along.

Original poster: "Tests are hard. Anyone have the answer to number 1...and 2...and 3...while you're at it let me have the answer to all 100 questions. Damn, tests are hard."

Other worried posters: "Yeah, tests are hard."

Rut: "I feel your pain. Here are all the answers."

(Ed comment: every year about this time 2 things are guaranteed to happen: I'll start going through the local stash of Halloween candy and Rut will post the part 1 answers.)

Other worried posters: "Thank you kind sir, having those answers are a load off my mind and I'll be a much better official now because I'll be working 6th grade girls games instead of reading that nasty rule book."

Nevada: "Through my deep understanding of statistics I have previously proven that it's virtually impossible for a brain damaged monkey on crack (ed comment: IOO a Red Sox fan) to score less than a grade of 80 on this test. This will obviously earn me a Nobel prize, and for this reason I declare the answers shall remain a secret!"

Camron: "Obviously none of you have passed 9th grade math and that's the reason why you're all unemployed. Now, where are my fries???"

Some jerk called windy: "AAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!! YOU GAVE OUT THE ANSWERS!!!!!!! I MEAN, YOU GAVE OUT *THE* ANSWERS!!!!!!!!! WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU???!! THOSE ARE *THE* ANSWERS!!!! I AM GOING TO REPORT YOU TO THE TEACHER RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU WILL BE SORRY!!!!!!"

Rut: "F*** you Windy."

Some jerk called windy: "AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! ! YOU GAVE OUT THE ANSWERS AND YOU USED THE F WORD!!!!!!!!!!! AS SOON AS I STOP CRYING I WILL DEFINITELY BE GOING TO THE TEACHER AND I HEAR SHE'S A VERY GOOD FRIEND OF JURASSIC REFEREE!!!!!!"

Rut: "F*** you Windy."

Jurassic Referee: "F*** you Windy."

Yet another worried poster: "uuuuhhhhmmmm...Jeff?? Can you e-mail me the answers too?"

Did it ever occur to any of the geniuses out there that there are states (like mine) where part I is given out to be done (open book) and then turned in and that someone might like to have the correct answers to check against his own?

I get together with 6-8 other officials each year (after we have all completed the test on our own) to discuss the test. Each year there are 3-5 questions that we argue about for quite awhile. Usually at that point we break out the correct answer to settle the debate.

As always, I am sure that there are those out there in cyberland that think that this is immoral, unethical and that we should have all of our games pulled for asking for (or sharing) the correct answers on an open book test. For all of you, too bad, they are a great study aid.

Those who use it to cheat...they'd find another way if this one doesn't work out for them. They'll flush themselves out with or without a test.

Thanks Jeff.

[Edited by stripes on Oct 28th, 2004 at 02:41 AM]

Thanks, Dan. That gave me a good laugh! :)

Yup, that pretty much covers it. :D

Did it ever occur to any of the geniuses out there also that there are states where Part 1 is given out as an official test(either open or closed book), and the results of that test may determine their rating or eligibility for playoff games? What might be OK for officials in one state does not necessarily mean that it applies to ALL states.

Don't you get the correct answers when you get your test returned anyway? Or if you just get a mark, you can ask and then get the answers?

JR,

We have coachÂ’s ratings that determine playoffs. We have Top 15 list by official's associations, assignors and schools which determine playoffs. Also geography, years of experience, clinic status, and how many boysÂ’ games you worked, how many girlsÂ’ games you worked.

In my state, you cannot get a State Final assignment because you received a higher score than someone else. As a matter of fact, the guy that assigns the Boy's playoffs told me that the type of game you work can determine your opportunity. Now that is not a listed requirement, but that is one thing he personally might look at if officials have similar numbers in the other categories. All an IHSA official has to do is simply pass the test and you get Power Rating points. First of all you have to pass the test each year to maintain your license (probation or suspension), but you might not get any points if you are not ranked high enough in the other categories. It is clear that in our state they powers that be do not look at this test as a big deal as you are suggesting. You also are not going to go from a first round or regional to a semi-final or super-sectional in one year anyway. And the test is not going to determine that at all.

Peace

Rocket science ...
 

Ah the entertainment value of the internet.

I have had my laugh for the day.

Thanks all

David

BTW Dan......
 

very funny post. I am now awake. <a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_214.gif' alt='Lol' border=0></a>

Peace

In my state, you cannot get a State Final assignment because you received a higher score than someone else. As a matter of fact, the guy that assigns the Boy's playoffs told me that the type of game you work can determine your opportunity.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

That is about as big of a lie as you could tell.
The ratings system for playoffs includes your Part 1 score.
Therefore, cheating to get a higher score WILL make the difference between two officials that are very close in all other comparisons. I'm sure that Kurt will be in touch very soon.

That's the point where we disagree, Jeff. It seems like the IHSA tests your knowledge as a way to make sure that you really do know something about the rules- right? Before they license you, it seems that they do want to at least ensure that you pick up a rule book and look at it occasionally. Doesn't having the answers given to you kinda negate the whole purpose of anyone taking the test in the first place?

I can see it as not being a big deal in some areas or situations, like Stripe's maybe, but in a state where you HAVE to pass the test, it just seems like a helluva advantage to me- and an advantage that really isn't to the benefit of the testee either imo.

Windy, having differing opinions of how a system really operates does not a liar of anyone make. I've seen enough different systems used that I've learned that, due to politics, preferences, etc., there can be a helluva difference between the way a system is set up to run and the way that it ACTUALLY does run.

I'm glad you enjoyed it & took it for what it was: a vehicle for me to call Red Sox fans brain damaged crack addicted monkeys.

Hey, you're not talking about the <I>Flores Man</i>, are you? Not nice! :D

Name one official?
 

I have actually had a conversation with Kurt about the playoff assigning. I have also seen the man speak several times about the process he assigns official. I know many people in our state that receive the test answers and those officials cannot get a single playoff game in either Boy's or Girl's basketball. So if the test was such an important piece of consideration, then it has not shown up in the type of assignments people receive.

You have threatened me over and over again by claiming you are going to report me for something I have said. I have yet to be contacted by anyone. I introduced myself to everyone that assigns me to playoff assignments and people you claim would contact me. The only way they seem to know me is when they have seen me work a game. Anthony knew me from watching me work a game in DeKalb, Illinois. I was asked to sit on a committee by Dave. I had a conversation with Kurt about basketball and I received a call from Dave this past weekend about another manner. Not one time have they ever talked to me about his site or suggested that I have stated anything out of line. Not one time. As a matter of fact, I have received 2 playoff assignments since your little threats. So I will see Kurt on November 6 and I am supposed to talk to him about another issue at the request of a Rules Interpreter and Clinician. So I am sure this will come up. Not that the man has other issues to worry about. But it is not like I have never been called from the IHSA about anything in the past. :rolleyes:

Peace

I understand George is trying to get MLB to investigate this and DQ the SOX for this obviously illegal activity.

I do not disagree with your position about the basic part of the test. But if anyone has ever picked up a Referee Magazine in the past year, our system was talked about in great detail. The testing process was just a very small percentage of the requirement. I agree that the test is to encourage people to pick up the rulebook, but it is not the only or main factor. All the people that have contacted me are not from my state and claim they do not use the test for the purposes many here have objections to. I have been here a long time and many states do not administer the test the same way. Many do not even use the Part 1 at all. Officials should be allowed to use the answers to study for other tests. If the NF was so concerned about really testing officials, why do they advocate the Athletic Rules Study program, which asks the very same question 5 years in a row? It seems to me they could come up with some different questions each year if they really wanted folks to look thru the rulebook. When I used ARS to study for the Part 2 exam (in different sports too) I had already seen most of the questions thru the program. All I had to do was memorize the question and the answer. I did not have to look up the answer in the rulebook to know what the correct answer was.

Peace

The only time we use the Part 1 exam here in kentucky is when you first get your license and they send the rule books and the test and let you take it open book and you have to get a 70% to get your license.... now the part 11 test is used during association meeting and you take i on your own closed book and if you don't get an 80% on it, you don't do post season...that is all it's used for!! so if you don't want post season games you don't even have to show up for it!!!! But if you ref all year, who wouldn't want post season games :)

You knew exactly where yur answers were going?
Several IHSA members have pseudonyms and I saw several on this site. Are you sure that what you transmitted was not given to anyone that could use it to cheat? I didn't think so.

Lest anyone be confused, the IHSA policy does use the Part 1 score as one of the factors in slotting officials for playoff assignments. The equation has many factors, true. But, if Joe is equal to Bob on the coaches ratins, Top 15 lists and past playoff experience, this score can mean the difference between who gets the assignment. Let's say Joe, (like most of us) takes the test and scores a 90. he got tripped up on a couple of "word issues" and didn't really check into the new rules like he should have. But he's a pretty good official and was fortunate enough to be assigned a nice Regional contest last year. Bob, on the other hand, got the answers from Jeff and turned in a perfect score. When the decision is made, all things being equal, who do you assign? Remember, we have a lot of guys working out there and not all have been seen by the powers that be. For A Sectional assignment, the Assistant Director will look at the computer generated scores and figure, "This guy must really be on the ball. Four straight years of 99's and 100's."

I ask you, is it so innocent now? Aren't officials supposed to penalize those that cheat and are found out?

Mr. Blue,

After reading through both this thread and the one in the football thread about overruling another official, I have come to this conclusion.

Your posts seem to have absolutely no value to this board. Why don't you go back to your baseball section, and leave the rest of us and Rut alone.

Why, do you still need the answers?


I'll never understand how you can stand back and allow cheating here, but punish it on the field or court.
That is hypocrisy at its zenith.

BTW, my argument was just as vehement on the baseball board when a couple of guys started posting the answers there. I have never protested discussing the question and teaching those that want to learn. But, giving out the key, while the test is still active in many states, crosses the line.
How can you argue with that?

I already have the answers.

My main point is that if someone is doing something you don't like, ignore it. There is no reason for you to start attacking those of us who would like a copy of the answers. In my area, it takes a month for the tests to get marked. I would like to know what my score is the day after I submit my test.

If some people are using them to cheat, then so be it, that is on their conscience, not any of ours.

Also, I don't think it fair to assign playoff games based soley on exam marks. Doing well on the exam has no bearing on what kind of official you are. Honestly, who really needs to know what the maximum width of the rubber seam separating the panels of the ball?? How will this bit of information help an official do a state final. As officials we should write a mechanics exam and a rules test like the IAABO test, one that tests how we would officiate a game.

ref18: I already have the answers.

WCB: Did you take the test on your own? Were you supplied with the answers prior to taking it?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

ref 18: My main point is that if someone is doing something you don't like, ignore it.

WCB: Are you really an official?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
ref18: There is no reason for you to start attacking those of us who would like a copy of the answers. In my area, it takes a month for the tests to get marked. I would like to know what my score is the day after I submit my test.

WCB: I have lived in states that graded the tests v-e-r-y slowly. After I sent it in, I talked with a bunch of my friends and asked them about questions that puzzled me or talked about the latest "Fed word game". I always knew within a point or two how I did. If you still live in a state that doesn't have immediate scoring, there is always the phone. Many state associations (IHSA included) has officials sites that have password protected access. We can take the test and have it scored immediately online. I might lobby my group to explore that path.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

ref18: If some people are using them to cheat, then so be it, that is on their conscience, not any of ours.

WCB: C'mon, you aren't really an official are you?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

ref18: Also, I don't think it fair to assign playoff games based soley on exam marks. Doing well on the exam has no bearing on what kind of official you are. Honestly, who really needs to know what the maximum width of the rubber seam separating the panels of the ball?? How will this bit of information help an official do a state final. As officials we should write a mechanics exam and a rules test like the IAABO test, one that tests how we would officiate a game.

WCB: I agree, using the test solely to schedule the playoffs is problematic. I don't think anyone here has ever advocated that. In Illinois, it is 1/8th of the formula. (The number of factors just changed so it might less or more.) Again, the test is used to evaluate AND inform. While a state final caliber official will usually score well, it's the playoff rounds before the final that will suffer when inferior officials cheat. We all know the guys that do just the bare minimum, fly beneath the radar and take advantage of every break that comes their way. Do you want that guy working instead of you?

[Edited by WindyCityBlue on Oct 28th, 2004 at 03:22 PM]

You are really out of the loop I see.
 

What is your point? I know of several organizations that just went over the exam or will be going over the exam. They put in on their agendas for meetings. What are they going over the test to do? They are not going over the test to do tidally winks.

Funny you should say that. Kurt said to me that one of the factors he uses is what kind of game you are used to working. He said directly that they know where your ratings come from. They know the rivalry games or the teams that are good or the pressure or talent is raised. He flat out said that if you are working a game like Quincy vs. Moline means much more than working Monmouth Warren vs. Roseville. Funny I have not seen one thing listed as to that "requirements" in any literature but he seems to figure that it is important. Or better yet, the guy that is working 15 different conferences gets more consideration than the guy working just 2. If you pass the test you get at least one point. You are not guaranteed getting any points in the other categories other than ranking (X, R, C). You might not even get one point the other categories. And if you have not worked a State Final, you will never get a perfect score anyway. And we know that they do with officials after they have sent you to a few State Finals.


You are the only idiot that thinks the power rating is used that way. But then again, you have done a good job of proving that all by yourself.

Peace

Rut,
I thought this was all through. Last time I looked we had just hit 2 pages of responses. I open up the site today and we have 5 pages. I am sorry about all the grief. I am still on your side about this topic. I have had 20 people e-mail me for the answers. We must all be bad boys and girls for wanting to check our work.
These tests still don't tell if you can ref. I have gone to many clinics with D-1 officials that say the rules knowledge is not as important as officiating the game.
They are making over $1000 per game and we are getting $60. Who should we listen too?

Right out of the IHSA Handbook
 

Just so anyone can look it up, this information is on Page 17 and 18 of the Handbook.

IHSA Handbook

<b>D. Post-Season Assignments. The IHSA will assign officials to post season tournaments. Assignments are based on a number of factors, but not limited to the
following:</b>

<b>1. Power Rating 30 points possible</b>
a. Promotional level X – R – C, C – 5 pts., R – 3 pts., X – 1 pts.
b. Part 1 exam score 97 - 5 pts., 92 – 4 pts., 87 – 3 pts., 84 – 2 pts, 80 – 1 pts.
c. Previous tournament experience SF – 5 pt., Super or Semi – 4 pts.,
Sec/Quart 3—pts., Regional – 1 pt.

d. All rating (use percentile based on average rating divided by # of ratings)
90% - 5 pts. 80% - 4 pts. 70% - 3 pts. 60% - 2 pts. 50 % - 1 pt.

e. Number of High School varsity games worked
70% - 5 pts., 60% - 4 pts., 50% - 3 pts., 40% - 2 pts., 30% - 1 pt.
(based on number of games allowed by the IHSA by-laws in regular season for each sport by the IHSA by-laws)

f. Top 15 List from Associations, Assignors, and Schools (based on percentile of average rating divide by the number of rating)
90% - 5 pts., 80% - 4 pts., 70% - 3 pts. 60% - 2 pts., 50% - 1 pt.

<b>2. Must have a current certified clinic
3. Must have attended a rules interpretation meeting during the current year
4. Officials availability
5. Geographic consideration of officials assigned
6. Preference is given to Certified Official with high power rating – then to
Recognized Official with high power rating. High power rating may move a
Registered Official over a Certified Official in early rounds of the post season
tournament.
7. Information that the IHSA has on each official in our database that is reviewed
to determine assignments:</b>

a. Power rating (maximum 30 pts.)
b. Percentile rating of the official
c. Percentile rating of the Top 15 List
d. Promotion level (X, R, C)
e. Previous tournament experience
f. Games the officials have officiated broken down by Class A – Class AA and
boys or girls games
g. Geographic location
h. Years of experience
i. Last certified clinic date & level of the clinic
j. Last rules interpretation date
k. Probation/Suspension status

Each official needs to make sure all data is correct that is on their own personal site and on the renewal form.
The information used to determine the Power Rating is only the last two years of data collected. The computer updates weekly, so that coaches and officials ratings
and Top 15 Lists are a combination of the last two years on each official.



[Edited by JRutledge on Oct 28th, 2004 at 04:13 PM]

Do not feel bad.
 

Do not apologize, you did nothing wrong. We just have a village idiot that thinks he know everything and all things in our state. At least JR has a legitimate disagreement with our philosophy. I disagree with JR on this, but he has made a point that could apply. Windy has been trying to threaten me with all kinds of things for about 7 months now. He has had nothing stick or no one listens to him so he thinks I am going to say anything I would not in any other situation.

Our states use these test as one very small factor. It is an open book test and we get our score immediately if you do it online. I have only found one official (who is not Windy) that has ever had objections to groups going over the answers together. And he was not respected as an official and many did not care what he thought. I am sure there are more officials that feel that way, and have reported that feeling to the state. It has never changed and I have never heard of anyone getting upset about the practice. But when officials were rating officials and not giving a cross section of ratings to the IHSA's satisfaction, we got letters and officials had their rating privileges suspended until they wrote a letter to the IHSA to explain themselves. The rating system is a big factor as to who gets playoffs here, and there was an outcry when officials were doing things possibly unethical there. If our state felt it was cheating, they would have changed their process long ago. They changed the way we take the Part 2 Exam and the promotion process because those systems were getting out of hand. So if folks like Windy want to *****, let them. I personally do not care what other states do and neither should anyone care about what my state does. It is not like one or two states are the only people that have this test available. Not sure how they could ever change the way people share the answers.

Peace

From your fingertips:

b. Part 1 exam score 97 - 5 pts., 92 – 4 pts., 87 – 3 pts., 84 – 2 pts, 80 – 1 pts.

What part of giving someone the answers doesn't make a difference? It seems to me that a couple of points are on the line.

Again, going over the test at a function is different from getting the answer key. Unless, you just sit there and right down the answers withour participating in the discussion, that is.

I haven't done any name calling, so I guess the pressure must be getting to you. You'll never convince me that what you did was a valuable service. You were a mule...you carried the contraband to the user and now want absolution. The thing is, I don't care. I'm not the one that is going to judge you in regards to playoff eleigibility. But I will have a say when it comes to further IACAO involvement. Your principles are tarnished and no amount of excuses will clean it up.

The members that came to your aid had weak defenses at best. "We want to know the answers, everyone else has them." or "I just want to know how I did." I guess they have no colleagues with phones. Doesn't their state association have a working phone? How about email, they seem to be caapable to use the internet.

Go ahead and dilute the quality of officiating by providing the answers. Those that believe that it makes no difference are usually not the guys at the top of the talent pool. It's always easy to say that a test is not the measure of an official. Yet, professionals are still tested each year, just to keep them sharp. Hmmmmm...

Re: Right out of the IHSA Handbook
 

Am I reading this right, Jeff? If you get 97% on your exam, that will give you 3 more power points than if you score 84% on the exam? Iow, out of a total of 30 power points available, you could have a total power rating that might actually be 10% higher than if you wrote a poorer exam? And that corresponding 10% raise in an official's power rating might be enough to move an inexperienced Registered Official into a play-off game over a Certified Official?

Sounds to me like there IS an incentive there to do as well on the exam as you can. Of course, as I said before, the way that a system is supposed to run vs. the way that it actually runs can be quite a bit different. Hopefully, the IHSA knows their officials rather than assigning some play-off games by numbers.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Oct 28th, 2004 at 05:06 PM]

I have never given the answer key. I do not know for sure what answers I received were right and what were wrong based on a key. I got my own answers and made some conclusions after many discussions with officials. The answer key has where the rules in both the Casebook and rulebook. If people want to get an idea of what answers they got right, I have no problem giving them that opportunity. It is up to them how they use what I gave them.

What pressure might that be Windy?

I think your behavior on this and other sites speaks for itself as it relates to what your principles and values. Obviously we do not share the same values and I would never want to say I did with the likes of you.

BTW, I will be speaking at IACAO Basketball Clinic on November 6 at Hoffman Estates. Let see how much we talk about rules in any of my presentations? You are welcome to come. :D

Wow, you can tell the difference between a phone and the internet. Man, you sure are a good one. :D

I have worked college basketball for about 5 years. I have never been tested in those rules. I have seen some self tests, but I have never been required to receive one game by passing an NCAA test. The NCAA seems to work well in getting their officials thru camps and recommendations. I read the rulebooks much more after the testing the period than I ever do during that time. Only in HS basketball are these tests used to prove to people you can work for some reason. Maybe there are some conferences out there that use a test to determine talent, but I have yet to know who they are. But I do know many that had to attend camps and meetings to prove their talent in basketball. But then again, you only work baseball, so you would not know much about that now would you?

Peace

Re: Re: Right out of the IHSA Handbook
 

That would be great if the Power Rating was the factor for playoffs. It is clearly not, when they consider the many other factors below. They do not move people all over the state for the early rounds (Regional), so you are competing against people that live in your area. My regional last year was about 30 miles one way (if that). They were not sending someone from Carbondale (south of St. Louis) to work games in Northern Illinois. It might help someone that is boarder line, but if you are too dumb to check your answers or go to association meetings to get all the answers, then same on you. I am sure there are people that like to take the test completely on their own, but I have yet to meet them. So if everyone gets a 97, then what?

The test is an open book exam. We do not take the test on a specific day, at a specific site. There are no rules, warnings or comments from the IHSA that suggest that people cannot confirm their answers with other official. I would agree with you if there was some information from the head of the Official's Department made it clear that "cheating on the test is not to be tolerated." Instead they say absolutely nothing and then say "I have no problem with officials helping each other and going over the test." And all those people that Windy keeps referencing sat there and said nothing. As a matter of fact there were several officials that were "shocked" when he made those comments. JR, they also go out and watch officials. If you prove yourself to be a competent official and use the proper mechanics, that means just as much if not more. I also have to state that no official below the ranks of a Certified Official is going to ever work a State Final. That has not only been said, it has been given out in literature to the officials. The Power rating is used as one objective gauge to determine playoff assignments. It has been made clearly by those that assign basketball (and who assign the other sports) that is not at all the major consideration. I know people that get playoffs that they feel are great officials and I am sure the power rating is not a factor in what they decide or not decide. I know people that have turned down assignments have not been considered after they were offered and opportunity. I am sure you will not read that anywhere in the literature either, but it is a factor.

Peace

I think your behavior on this and other sites speaks for itself as it relates to what your principles and values. Obviously we do not share the same values and I would never want to say I did with the likes of you.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

That is painfully obvious.

The rest of your message sounds a lot like the guy who is trying to convince his friends that "I've still got it."
Look around, does anyone care? It's just pitiful how you are lying. You say in one post that you scored a 99 and am willing to provide those answers to thers, but now say you don't know how accurate your answers are. Well...which way is it?

Finally, Jurassic is correct in reading the actual procedure. The facts are the facts. there is an incentive to score well in Illinois and a couple of other states. But then again, I just work baseball, so I don't understand this whole "enabling/cheating" thing. I guess I must have read the IHSA Officials Code of Ethics incorrectly, too. You are pretty good at copying and pasting...could you please provide those for us? I'd love to hear you explain those.

Windy,

Let us not go there about the Code of Ethics and your behavior here. Puulleese do not try that argument.

Windy, I will see someone directly from the IHSA tomorrow. I will ask him what he thinks about it. I am still waiting for Kurt to contact me as you stated. I am also looking forward to all this heat you claim is coming my way.

I guess we will see how much in the loop you are. ;)

Peace

I almost forgot, in order to be promoted in Illlinois, you have to receive and 85% or 90%...another reason to cheat!

Here, let me help with the code of conduct stuff...

from the National Federation of State High School Associations

In recognition of these expectations there is hereby established a Code of Ethics for all officials.
The purpose of the code is to establish guidelines for ethical standards of conduct for all officials.

An Official must devote time, thought and study to the rules of the game and the mechanics necessary to carry out these rules so that one may render effective and creditable service in a fair and unbiased manner.

An Official must work with fellow officials and the state association in a spirit of harmony and cooperation in spite of differences of opinion that may arise during debate of points or rules at issue.

An Official must resist every temptation and outside pressure to use one's position as an official to benefit oneself. Under all circumstances, officials must avoid promoting the special interest of any person or group of persons other than the athletes we serve.

An Official must constantly uphold the honor and dignity of the avocation in all personal conduct and relations with the student-athletes, coaches, athletic directors, school administrators, colleagues, and the public, to be a worthy example to the athletes under one's jurisdiction.

An Official will be prepared both physically and mentally, dress according to expectations and maintain a proper appearance that is befitting the importance of the game.

The Official shall avoid the use of tobacco and products at the contest site.

An Official must remember and recognize that it is important to honor contracts regardless of possible inconvenience or financial loss.

Every member of the officiating profession carries a responsibility to act in a manner becoming a professional person.Â* The conduct of any official influences the attitude of the public toward the profession in general as well as toward the official in particular.

If that doesnÂ’t do it for you...from the 2004-2005 IHSA Officials Handbook:

Maintaining an Active Officiating License
1. To maintain or renew an Active IHSA Officials License, an official must:
a. pay an annual fee of $35.00 for first sport and $15.00 for additional sport, plus a late fee if applicable;
b. properly complete and submit the renewal form by June 30th of each year;

c. properly submit and obtain at least an 80% on the current rules examination (see deadlines below);

d. attend an annual IHSA rules meeting;
e. be in compliance with the IHSA certified clinic requirement;
f. be in compliance with the IHSA conviction policy;

Suspension
1. An IHSA officiating license may be suspended for the following reasons:
a. not attending a rules meeting and/or not meeting the examination
requirements for two consecutive years;
b. not attending an IHSA Certified Clinic within three calendar years;
c. reports of the official failing to meet more than two contractual
agreements;
d. failure to properly complete and submit required special report forms on
more than three occasions;
e. report of abusive physical contact (including striking or shoving) or
verbal abuse of a contestant, coach or fan, immediately before, during, or
after an IHSA contest at which the official is officiating;

f. reports of the official displaying a lack of proficiency, knowledge or
understanding of the rules of the contest on more than six occasions;
g. reports of the official displaying gross acts of misconduct or
unprofessional behavior;
h. indictment for a felony or other crime;
i. failure to meet requirements of conviction policy;
j. report of physical or emotional limitations that prevent, restrict, or
disqualify the person from performing the normal functions and duties of
an official in that sport; and for which no reasonable accommodation can
be made; and
k. knowingly providing false, incomplete or inaccurate information on an IHSA application, renewal form, special report form, or officials web site information page.

Officials — Keys to Good Sportsmanship
One of the goals of interscholastic competition is to teach important values while
enriching the educational experience of the young men and women who participate.
Good sportsmanship is certainly one of those important values, and as a result,
promoting good sportsmanship is clearly one of our highest priorities.
We also believe officials play key roles in teaching and promoting good sports-manship.
The following information contains a brief summary of sportsmanship
expectations for officials. By following these guidelines officials can enhance the
lifelong lessons that are being taught in the interscholastic classroom. We urge you
to read them carefully and hope you will remember to SPORT A WINNING ATTITUDE
when officiating interscholastic contests in IHSA member schools.
• Accept your role in an unassuming manner. Showboating and over-officiating
are not acceptable.
• Maintain confidence and poise, controlling the contest from start to finish.

• Know the rules of the game thoroughly and abide by the established Code of
Ethics.

• Publicly shake hands with coaches of both teams before the contest.
• Never exhibit emotions or argue with participants and coaches when enforcing
rules.
• When watching a game as a spectator, give the officials the same respect you
expect to receive when working a contest.

Like Mary Struckoff of the NFHS has any power regarding a state issue anyway.

Re: Re: Re: Right out of the IHSA Handbook
 

JR, they also go out and watch officials. If you prove yourself to be a competent official and use the proper mechanics, that means just as much if not more.

The Power rating is used as one objective gauge to determine playoff assignments. It has been made clearly by those that assign basketball (and who assign the other sports) that is not at all the major consideration. I know people that get playoffs that they feel are great officials and I am sure the power rating is not a factor in what they decide or not decide.
[/B][/QUOTE]Iow, the system does depend on someone(i.e.- IHSA assignors) knowing that the guys that they put out there are actually good officials. There's not some numbers nerd who's never seen the officials sitting at a desk and shuffling papers to figure out who to put on the games.

As long as the system actually works........(knowing that there is always usually politics involved also- no matter what state you are in).....

All I am saying is that it is an <b>"OPEN BOOK TEST."</b> When I was in college there were some teachers that gave open book tests. They never meant you could not get in a study group and come up with the answers or what your position you took on the essay. There are no rules that suggest that is wrong or considered cheating. It would be one thing if you showed me a rule in my state or any other state that contradicted that, but there is not one.

Peace

Sure that occurred to me. I can read.

I get corrected answers, in January. We like to be able to discuss and check our answers. Certainly not a crime here.

You act like everyone that asks/supplies answers to the test has some ulterior/overt motive to cheat and that simply isn't the case. Many of us use the answers in very constructive ways. I used to post the test answers for my class of 1st and 2nd year officials so they could check their answers and i told them that if they just copied them and turned in their test for a good score, they were only cheating themselves, but they still had to choose.

Let us be big boys/girls and choose for ourselves without the condescention.

[Edited by stripes on Oct 28th, 2004 at 07:12 PM]

Thank you
 

My point from the very beginning!

You act like everyone that asks/supplies answers to the test has some ulterior/overt motive to cheat and that simply isn't the case.

Let us be big boys/girls and choose for ourselves without the condescention.

[/B][/QUOTE]No, I'm saying that there is a potential in this practise for having some officials somewhere in the country cheat on their exams. If someone hasn't written it yet, and they now have to pass the exam to be certified in their state, then having all of the answers sent to them well before they have to write the exam means that they can take the easy road, if they want to, and cheat. And how exactly then would you then know that no one else has't any ulterior/overt motives and wouldn't cheat? The potential is now there, isn't it?

Btw, all I've given out so far in this thread is my view on this subject. Don't give me that "condescending" crap just because my view doesn't agree with yours. I don't think that I've written anywhere that I don't respect the right of you or anyone else to have their own view on this subject, whether I agree with that view or not.

Well that is not my problem. That is their problem. Not all states use the tests the same way. If a state wants to create a process, they need to be aware that in this day and age, officials can and will share information. If they want to protect the results, then change the process.

Peace

Attended my rules meeting last night. Verbally stated at the meeting, #1 thing Kurt looks for is mechanics. Look, if you abuse the key you are going to pay for it on the floor period, thus bad rating, no post-season. One of the main points in the test is seeing the rules changes or the additions. If you just fill out the sheet and abuse the key you aren't going to know the changes and it will show.

Watch out. You are about to have someone tell you that you lied and what Kurt feels. But that same person has probably never met Kurt or talked to any of the Rules Interpreters that runs these meetings to even know what Kurt thinks.

Peace

Rich F. -

Mary Struckhoff used to be an Assistant Executive Director for the IHSA. She has now moved to the NFHS to handle Officials. She may not have authority to punish (suspend, terminate or limit playoff availability), but she has a resource to direct comments about cheating. Mary can also blow a call in to her colleagues at the IHSA and inquire about the perceived impropriety.

When I see someone cheat on the field, I penalize them and notify the responsible authority. Jeff Rutledge just committed aviolation of the NFHS and IHSA ethics codes and he was reported accordingly. If you find this petty, that sounds like an issue of your integrity, not mine.

It is called atest for a reason. In Illinois it is used for promotion and playoff eligibility. A few points on the scores will make a difference!

WCB

It's an open book test. Whether the answers are posted for all to see or not it's a "piece of cake" to get the correct answers if you really want them. If the powers that be really wanted an objective test they could hold it as closed book test as part of a Rules Interpretation Meeting. If it were done this way the weeping and knashing of teeth would be unbearable. Don't you think they know that the answers are shared? IMHO test scores (except for the Certified Test) should have no bearing on post season assignments.

I have no problem with anyone putiing out their opinion, but I really think you do condescend toward those who don't share your viewpoint. It is not about respecting rights...it about an attitude.

I have no problem with anyone putiing out their opinion, but I really think you do condescend toward those who don't share your viewpoint. It is not about respecting rights...it about an attitude. [/B][/QUOTE]Um, how about the guy that wrote in this thread:-<i>"Did it ever occur to any of the geniuses out there..."</i> Or maybe the guy that told people who disagreed with him- <i>"For all of you, too bad...."</i>.

Wonder who that was?

Think that maybe "condescension" might be in the eye of the beholder, Stripes?

The last line says it all. In Illinois, where you live and work, this test does matter. There are other states that count the test towards promotion, as well. Whether the answers are easy to get or not has no bearing. It is still cheating.

Want a more real example...just because you have a friend that can get you heroin, doesn't make it any less illegal. Are we supposed to wring our hads because others don't have such connections? Officials are supposed to uphold the rules. Passing out the answers while the test is still open is wrong. This is not a grey area. Enforce the rules or don't take the check!

Where is the Special Report?
 

When Mary was here she knew of the same procedure. You make it sound like this is something new. Officials association was going over the test on her watch. She did the same as they are doing now. The only thing she changed was the Part 2 process and promotion process. It was officials that used to cheat on a test that was taken at a specific cite and was being administered totally against the rules. Now we have the same system we had when she was in Illinois.

What specific code did I violate?

I can see you never went to school. It was not unusual for a teacher to give an "open book test." When they gave it, it was common for fellow students to go over the test with each other. Not only was this known, it was encouraged. If the teacher wanted to limit the knowledge students gave to each other, they do not give a take home exam.


Show me a by-law that tells anyone that sharing the answers with officials across the country is illegal or against the rules? Do not talk about what you think, show me a by law. Show me a rule that states when I have passed the test that I cannot share my answers? You cannot suggest some general, suggestive code is violated and not state a specific code that is violated. Am I not supposed to share information with other officials based on your point of view? Yes this is a test, but it is an "open book test." They give the test to everyone in the state. They put no rules that suggest we even have to use only the rulebook or casebook to find our answers.

The first statement in the Code of Ethics in the IHSA Handbook states:

"An Official must devote time, thought and study to the rules of the game and the mechanics necessary to carry out these rules so that one may render effective and creditable service in a fair an unbalanced manner."

Funny I do not see anything about the test or the procedure about the test. They do not state what you can or cannot do at all in an "open book test." If they did not want interaction, they would make rules that suggest it. Even on page 29 when they talk about IHSA By-Laws that apply to officials, they say nothing about the test. They do talk about honoring contracts and attendance at Rules Meetings, not one mention of any test procedures.

It does say in the Code of Conduct on the second line of codes:

"An Official must work with fellow officials and the state association in the spirit of harmony and cooperation in spite of differences of opinion that may arise during debate of points or rules at issue."

You have violated this 10 times over on this site and many other places. You have attacked me as an umpire and told me I was not going to get a playoff game during the baseball season. You told me that I was not on the level as an official that you were. You have told me and many others that they have not worked the level you have, so they basically do not have the right to an opinion. You seemed to have violated this "code" almost every day you are here. Should I report you?

You have the right to report me thru the Special Report Form if you feel like it. But that would mean you would have to put your name down and the rest of us could now see how much of what you say is even true. Then we would see if you violated this code of conduct:

"An Official must resist temptation and outside pressure to use one's position as an official to benefit oneself. Under all circumstances, officials must avoid promoting the special interest of any person or group other than the athletes we serve."

Now is your UMPS talk and putting down organizations that I belong or groups in the area part of your code that you follow?

You have to read all of the Codes of Conduct, not just the ones you seem to disagree with.

Peace

I will respond to your latest tome in next. I just noticed another thread...is their an NCAA test for basketball officials? I could have sworn you said that the only test you are required to take was Fed.

Seems to be some double standard here.
 

There are NCAA Tests that you can take. If you attend a NCAA Rules Meeting you can get a copy of the test in the Official's Manual that they give you. It is an open book test and if you choose not to take it you do not have to. It has nothing to do with assignments unless an assignor decides to use it for some reason. But if that is the case, it is an open book test. You can confirm, confer with other officials to get the answers. You know the same thing you call "cheating."

It is required to take a test, but the same rules apply. You or anyone else has yet to show me a rule that state it is against any rule to share answers or result. There no rule with the NF and there is not IHSA rule that covers this. The IHSA set guideline with our rating system because they felt some rules were violated. They have done no such thing. I have attended two Rules meetings and have yet to hear any comment about the test and how to not violate any rules. If what I have done is cheating, so it when guys give people the answers when they ask a specific question off of the test. I know when I was in college I could not share on answer to benefit my fellow classmate in any way when we are in the classroom taking a test. I do not see you jumping on those that have asked for the answer to a question or giving the answer with the test still out. If the playoffs are such a concern, then that one or two answers might help someone get extra points. Why are that OK, and what you claim I did is wrong? So I guess I can do half the answers on my own and get the other half thru the internet by asking questions and that is OK, but giving out the answers without the questions to folks in states that do not use the same test for the same purposes as they do in Illinois is wrong?

I see it is all based on your opinion, not any legal rule or code that is followed.

Peace

WCB

Your begging the question. Your real example is a poor analogy. You are comparing something that is unlawful as opposed to something that is unethical. Never said sharing answers is right or wrong. That is up to each individual to decide for him/herself. Your're only cheating yourself and short changing the players if you don't review the rules each season. More importantly if you make a mistake learn the correct ruling and don't make it again.
Gave my opinion that test results should have no bearing on post season assignments. I'm well aware that they are a tiny piece of the puzzle.

Do you honestly think that the powers that be are unaware that the answers are shared? Obviously they don't care based upon the format.

Can't we just all get along!!!!
 

Everyone is going to have different opinions, no use arguing them....they have that opinion for a reason and probably not going to change it most of the time!!!

Not only do they not care, they know what the results are of every official. I am sure more than 70% of officials get a 90 or higher. It is probably higher percentage if you talk about those that that gets the 5 points for playoff consideration (97-100 on Test). All you have to do is be a member of an association and you can get the answers from someone. Many do the test on their own and debate the answers they feel the group has wrong. Many others just take the answers and do not look at the test enough. That is up to them and their personal value. I always want to do the test to see what I do not understand or might disagree with. It is really silly to me the double standard.

Peace

This is stupid.

Obviously you believe Jeff's violated an honor code by giving out HIS answers to the test, just as obviously he disagrees. You have fulfilled YOUR responsibilities by reporting him to the powers that be who shall investigate (maybe) and decide. Your work here is done, now off you go to perform yet more good works.

It's OK to not like Rut, btw, we all go through that. Just stop being such a f'ing @sshole about it.

I agree. We've gone 'round and 'round on this. And, mostly, we've been able to disagree without being disagreeable. I'm going to close the thread before it turns from arguing opinions to arguing personalities.